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Author Topic: Viet Nam
ConSigCor
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Anyone else watching the new Viet Nam documentary by Ken Burns?

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"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861

Posts: 15327 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
airforce
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My brother is recording it, so I suppose I'll end up binge-watching it eventually. If they have an episode about the Tet Offensive (I can't imagine they won't), I'll probably watch it.

I like old shows about WWII and Korea. For some reason Vietnam just doesn't interest me as much.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Posts: 17228 | From: Tulsa | Registered: Jan 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
ConSigCor
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I didn't think I would like it but to Burn's credit he's actually attempting to tell the whole story from all sides.

A remember a lot of what I''m watching but the early history of Viet Nam is the most interesting.

As crazy as it may sound I'm gaining more respect for Ho Chi Min than I ever had for the American politicians. Ho originally admired the US, was on our side and reached out to us numerous times only to be blown off by our arrogant political hacks.

And, It's a shame Adolf didn't wipe the filthy french off the map.

One thing that really pissed me off was a classified document from the Joint Chiefs to Johnson in 65 that outlined the real reason for staying in and escalating the war. And it wasn't to stop the spread of communism like we were all told.

[ 09-19-2017, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: ConSigCor ]

--------------------
"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861

Posts: 15327 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
airforce
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I've always wondered why Robert McNamara and McGeorge Bundy weren't hanged for treason.

Onward and upward,
airforce

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Ducttape
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Are any of you guys familiar with Bill Binney ?

He was the NSA genius who discovered and warned about the TET OFFENSIVE two-months before it happened, only to have the generals ignore all the proof.
So why weren't these guys brought up on charges for all of the soldiers that were wounded and died because they ignored all the proof


A Good American
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlkAxAc7EjI

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My Daddy is like duct tape, he can fix almost anything.

A quote from my youngest daughter at 4yrs old, many years ago.

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ConSigCor
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The report I mentioned to Airforce was an eye opener.

They told Johnson they had known the war would be unwinnable since Eisenhower.

Johnson didn't want anything to do with Nam...wanted a way out...but was told wwe had to stay in and escalate the conflict into a full blown war.

Why?

They broke their reasons down by percentage points.

70% to prevent political embarrassment and the humiliation of the US military complex.

20% to prevent the spread of communism.

10% to support the corrupt regime in South Viet Nam.

Those bastards KNEW we would not win and still committed hundreds of thousands of troops. 58,000 American casualties was the result of not "embarrassing" a bunch of assholes.

--------------------
"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861

Posts: 15327 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
airforce
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Robert McNamara admitted as much, in his autobiography. And 58,000 men died. There's a place in hell for McNamara and his cronies.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Posts: 17228 | From: Tulsa | Registered: Jan 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
ConSigCor
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I blame the French. There would've been no war if they had not invaded and seized Viet Nam in the 1860's. The Vietnamese fought for their independence for over a hundred years.

Ho initially approached Woodrow Wilson and was ignored because they didn't want to offend the French.

During WW2, Ho sided with the allies and fought against the Japs. After the war he wrote Truman numerous times explaining the goals of the Viet Minh and asked for support for their independence from France. He often quoted Jefferson and expressed his admiration of America. The state dept did not want to offend France, threw Ho's letters in the "trash" and Truman was never informed.

It was only then, that Ho turned to the communists for help to rid his country of the French.

--------------------
"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861

Posts: 15327 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
ConSigCor
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quote:
Are any of you guys familiar with Bill Binney ?
Ducttape, I remember the name. But couldn't place him.

--------------------
"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861

Posts: 15327 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
airforce
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Be skeptical of Ken Burns' "The Vietnam War."

quote:
...Being in a war doesn’t make anyone an expert on the geopolitical issues, it’s a bit like seeing history through a straw with your limited view. But my perspective has come from many years of reflection and absorbing a multitude of facts and opinions, because I was interested. My belief is that America’s involvement in Vietnam was a noble cause trying to stop the spread of Communism in Southeast Asia, while it had spread its miserable oppression in Eastern Europe and was gaining traction in Central America, Africa and other places around the world. This noble cause was, indeed, screwed up to a fare-thee-well by the Pentagon and White House, which multiplied American casualties.

The tone of the screening was altogether different, that our part in the war was a sad mistake. It seemed like Burns and Novick took photos, video clips, artifacts and interviews from involved Americans, South Vietnamese, North Vietnamese, Viet Cong, civilians from south and north, reporters and others, threw it all in a blender to puree into a new form of moral equivalence. Good for spreading a thin layer of blame and innocence, not so good for finding the truth....

Read the whole thing at the link.

Onward and upward,
airforce

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ConSigCor
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quote:
My belief is that America’s involvement in Vietnam was a noble cause trying to stop the spread of Communism in Southeast Asia,
Another retarded jerk who believes "his" government would never lie and is always right no matter what.

I had a belly full of his kind back in the 60's.

--------------------
"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861

Posts: 15327 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
airforce
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Well, I thought it was a noble cause at the time, too. I wasn't drafted, I volunteered for Vietnam.

Onward and upward,
airforce

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ConSigCor
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A LOT of American's thought it was a "noble" cause.
Until we figured out that we were lied to by the self serving political con men from the start. Many of my uncles and cousins bought the propaganda and volunteered...some didn't return.

And while we fought communism overseas, we allowed it to infiltrate every facet of life here at home.

[ 10-06-2017, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: ConSigCor ]

--------------------
"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861

Posts: 15327 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Etech
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The link below is (IMO) a good take on the Vietnam war - (some comments also)
http://www.unz.com/freed/a-vet-remembers/

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airforce
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quote:
Originally posted by Etech:
The link below is (IMO) a good take on the Vietnam war - (some comments also)
http://www.unz.com/freed/a-vet-remembers/

"But somehow I don’t like hearing pieties about the war from these sleek, wise people who never saw it."

Amen.

Onward and upward,
airforce

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Rudy
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I remember talking to a SFC special forces that was an instructor in ROTC back in the early '70's. He told us that he had 13 tours of duty in southeast asia starting in 1958 or 9. Special forces did 6-month tours. He said he could talk about 3 of them. But he did tell us that southern China is beautiful.

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Rudy out
"Once the pin is pulled, Mr. Handgrenade is no longer our friend."

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