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discollector
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Will the real militia please stand up?

Before I can get to the present day issue, I'd like to go down Memory Lane for just a moment.

Back in the early 2000s where I live there was a militia war of sorts. A temporarily appointed Captain in the militia decided to take over the Militia of Georgia. And, so he incorporates the name Militia of Georgia and tries to shut down the legitimate organization.

After a spat with the leadership of the Militia of Georgia and an opinion from the State Attorney General who said you could no more incorporate the name Militia of Georgia than you could the United States Marine Corps) the offshoot group altered the name a bit, calling themselves Georgia Militia.

Those people accused the legitimate leader of the Militia of Georgia of teaching people how to build silencers and urging them to shoot people at road blocks. It nearly cost that militia leader his life when a plan was concocted by LEOs to knock down the door of this militia leader, kill him and say that he resisted arrest.

That was followed by the Georgia Militia getting involved in incidents that put a lot of people behind bars. It appears the Georgia Militia was a front for LEO organizations.

A few minutes ago, I read a thread about Gary Hunt on this forum. Hunt was identified by the late William Cooper as being John Doe #4 in the Oklahoma City Bombing. Hunt also sided with a convicted pedophile in the militia war in Georgia.

Today, the new deal in town is the III% Militia. These guys are going to be on tv (channel 46 in Atlanta) Tues night 21 Nov 2017. Anyway, here we have the next batch of media friendly militia types trying to look good in their cammies and doing "exercises" that look more like police training than militia training. And most of this stuff is more about looking good for the cameras - a photo op that benefits the LEO community and Antifa than anything else.

Well, here I am wondering about what happened? Where did all those militia groups from early years go to? What happened to the commitment to the Constitution as originally written and intended? What happened to the loyalty between militia brethren? What happened to fight for Liberty? What happened to Comsec and Opsec?

Will the real militia please stand up?

--------------------
For God and country

Posts: 17 | From: Georgia | Registered: Nov 2017  | Report this post to a Moderator
airforce
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Some very good questions.

Jimmy Wynn of the Georgia Militia was a member here for quite a while. My problem with him was that he was constantly trying to pick a fight with everyone who disagreed with him, even over minor things. When he left I tried to help him out with his own discussion board for a little while, but he just seemed to be a magnet for unneeded controversy. When other things came up that I was involved with, I had to cut back on some of my activities - one of them being Jimmy Wynn's discussion board.

It did teach me a lesson. It may be possible for someone to unite all these groups, but I'm not the one to do it, and neither is AWRM. These groups just have to sort their problems out for themselves. We'll give them a forum if they want it, and try to get them to talk to each other, but they have to be willing to get along with one another. I can't force them to do that.

It sucks, but that's the reality of it.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Posts: 17227 | From: Tulsa | Registered: Jan 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
ConSigCor
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quote:
Where did all those militia groups from early years go to? What happened to the commitment to the Constitution as originally written and intended? What happened to the loyalty between militia brethren? What happened to fight for Liberty? What happened to Comsec and Opsec?
What happened?

Short answer - Facebook

And the attrition of time. Many of the members from the old days have died or aged out.

Others learned a lesson from the BS that went on during the nineties. They don't do F-book or openly pontificate on line. They keep it LOCAL and very low key.

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"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861

Posts: 15323 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
discollector
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Jimmy Wynn is with the Militia of Georgia. As pointed out, the Georgia Militia was the offshoot of MOG Inc.

And, as that leadership predicted, the little things became big things. You should have taken some of the SPIKE courses as modified by the Militia of Georgia.

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For God and country

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airforce
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quote:
Originally posted by discollector:
...And, as that leadership predicted, the little things became big things. You should have taken some of the SPIKE courses as modified by the Militia of Georgia.

I was fed up with all of them by that time. I was sick to death of keyboard warriors.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Posts: 17227 | From: Tulsa | Registered: Jan 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
discollector
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quote:
Originally posted by airforce:
quote:
Originally posted by discollector:
...And, as that leadership predicted, the little things became big things. You should have taken some of the SPIKE courses as modified by the Militia of Georgia.

I was fed up with all of them by that time. I was sick to death of keyboard warriors.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

Onward and upward,
airforce

I wanted to double check some facts for you. I was able to have someone save all the posts from the old Militia of Georgia board and then cross check the information with other sources.

The original leadership of the Militia of Georgia was accused for what you say is "picking fights." But, here is what I am able to document for you:

Jack Sullivan used to post on this board. At one point someone suggested that the leader of M.O.G. meet in a ring and the militia sell tickets to the event. Sullivan backed down. He lost a lot of respect on this board and the MOG board.

Sullivan would be one of those who tried to start a militia of the same name and incorporate it. Sullivan became a Confidential Informant for the government and then accused the leader of MOG of teaching people how to build silencers and urging them to shoot cops at roadblocks.

An Atlanta Journal Constitution reporter caught wind of the LEO's response to Sullivan's effort. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation hatched a plan to kill the MOG leader, claim he resisted arrest and kill him. The plan was exposed and the GBI agent that initiated the plan was suspended from his job for a few months. lost pay, demoted, put into a position of lesser authority and had a letter of reprimand put into his file. That prevented MOG from being able to sue the GBI.

Sullivan, using LEO money, established the Georgia Militia and began emptying the Militia of Georgia ranks with the same complaints you brought to the table. But all the "fights" you say were being started were actually warnings.

Joe Sims, who used to post on this board as capnroughrider (sp?) hooked up with the Georgia Militia and was working against the Militia of Georgia.

A lot of people bought into the same theory you hold and Sims was able to fly under the radar and stay in MOG while working as a double agent. Sims managed to recruit three units of MOG into the Georgia Militia.

After Sims was convicted of having sex with his 14 year old stepdaughter, he had an "epiphany" and offered to set up militia members in exchange for his freedom. Sims would go on to recruit at least five people (and maybe 6) that were on this board and the MOG board. Sims set all those people up and they ended up in prison:

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a12404/waffle-house-terrorists-0212/

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/meet-the-accused-child-rapist-who-worked-with-the-feds-against-the-senior-citizen-militia-members

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/11/georgia_militia_investigation.html


https://www.facebook.com/jasonrudeeal/

http://www.local8now.com/home/headlines/Bond_could_be_revoked_in_takeover_threat_112856374.html

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/knoxville/press-releases/2012/militia-extremist-sentenced-to-four-years-in-prison-for-take-over-plot

I'm providing this information to show it is true and accurate. Those were the people who were in constant arguments against the leadership of the Militia of Georgia. I'm thinking that if the militia in general had listened to the warnings, a lot of people would not be in prison today. All of the above men are the ones you perceive were the innocent ones when the fights started. In fact, the intel at MOG was and is the best in the entire militia.

How do you think, looking back, things would have gone had the other militias backed the right group back then? BTW, MOG is still going, never having missed a beat and always being vague with the media rather than violating Comsec or Opsec.

[ 11-20-2017, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: discollector ]

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For God and country

Posts: 17 | From: Georgia | Registered: Nov 2017  | Report this post to a Moderator
discollector
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quote:
Originally posted by ConSigCor:
quote:
Where did all those militia groups from early years go to? What happened to the commitment to the Constitution as originally written and intended? What happened to the loyalty between militia brethren? What happened to fight for Liberty? What happened to Comsec and Opsec?
What happened?

Short answer - Facebook

And the attrition of time. Many of the members from the old days have died or aged out.

Others learned a lesson from the BS that went on during the nineties. They don't do F-book or openly pontificate on line. They keep it LOCAL and very low key.

I attended a MOG meeting two weeks ago. Of the nine original founding members, three are still alive. What used to be fifty to 65 or so attendees is down to 14 and the two youngest guys were 26 and 44.

The Internet militia is not going to save you and if we don't start recruiting people, the skills and the history will be lost.

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For God and country

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Hawk45
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When this all started they (various Ga. Folks)said there should be NO NATIONAL Militia structure. They said 'local' was the ONLY authority. They verbally attacked folks like Charlie Puckett and the like for wanting to have standards and big training together at places like the Knob Creek meetings and the Ky. training.

All this while coming here and wanting folks nation wide to take sides and referee y'alls local squabble.

Frankly most said it was BS and GEORGIA needed to settle it and not whine about it here. When they did Ga. turned on them and started keyboard commando attacking any with helpful suggestions.

If it is like that in real life there, it is no wonder membership is less than 20.

NOT attacking you because all you are doing is pointing out some things that will destroy ANY volunteer organization. Personally I Thank You for doing it as hopefully this will point out why folks should and NEED to question anyone folks want to appoint over other folks lives.

CSC, is right in that 'Facebook' is doing more to destroy militias than the Southern Poverty Law Center ever did.

Just MY opinion. Its worth what you pay for it.

Posts: 2576 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
discollector
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawk45:
When this all started they (various Ga. Folks)said there should be NO NATIONAL Militia structure. They said 'local' was the ONLY authority. They verbally attacked folks like Charlie Puckett and the like for wanting to have standards and big training together at places like the Knob Creek meetings and the Ky. training.

All this while coming here and wanting folks nation wide to take sides and referee y'alls local squabble.

Frankly most said it was BS and GEORGIA needed to settle it and not whine about it here. When they did Ga. turned on them and started keyboard commando attacking any with helpful suggestions.

If it is like that in real life there, it is no wonder membership is less than 20.

NOT attacking you because all you are doing is pointing out some things that will destroy ANY volunteer organization. Personally I Thank You for doing it as hopefully this will point out why folks should and NEED to question anyone folks want to appoint over other folks lives.

CSC, is right in that 'Facebook' is doing more to destroy militias than the Southern Poverty Law Center ever did.

Just MY opinion. Its worth what you pay for it.

The original Militia of Georgia did support Charlie Puckett and was supportive of the U.S. Militias with Dan Shoemaker. They were highly supportive of sites like this one until the leadership was kicked off most of them due to the lobbying efforts of Jack Sullivan and Jamie Blackstone (proven to be Confidential Informants), Joe Sims (pedophile and Confidential Informant), and those who chose to leave MOG and join that effort that was the center of controversy back then: Anthony Howard, Dan Roberts, etc.

The Militia of Georgia still supports the idea of National Standards and states that would utilize their state militia in another state when requested by that other state - be it by a governor or the militia leadership in a national emergency.

I agree that the Internet (Facebook leading the way) is destroying the militia. My position is that in the early 2000s militia groups chose not to take sides in fights and predictably those militias with LEO money appeared to prevail. We are always going to have fights. Somebody is always going to feel they should be in charge without having to earn their spot. My regret for the whole movement is that those who inadvertently led to its demise don't understand what really happened.

Myself, I laid low for a few years and gave the movement a chance to prove they had better answers than we had here in Georgia. And while others talk badly about our low numbers, we are still having meetings and we can get as many to show up as the other guys you see on tv. That's not bad considering what we have had to overcome in this state. We did that without any support from outside our home state and no recognition from any media. Plus NO Internet presence.

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For God and country

Posts: 17 | From: Georgia | Registered: Nov 2017  | Report this post to a Moderator
discollector
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As I read the posts here, and I thank all of you for reading my long winded posts, I'm realizing that something must have happened that was related to disinformation, change agents, or miscommunications - or more likely, a combination.

The Georgia Militia was made up of a change agent that went into other states, entering into agreements and telling people they were the Militia of Georgia. They were not the Militia of Georgia and they did not represent us. It was not the point of whether or not the Militia of Georgia was supportive of other states, it was the fact that they entered into agreements and were promoting an organization that was working for LEOs trying to put us out of business.

Well, we're years down the road past all of that and you have the facts. In my mind, I don't know what choice we would have had from this state. Had the Militia of Georgia went along to get along, a lot more people would be in prison today. And that's something to think about.

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For God and country

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ConSigCor
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quote:
the leadership was kicked off most of them due to the lobbying efforts of Jack Sullivan and Jamie Blackstone (proven to be Confidential Informants), Joe Sims (pedophile and Confidential Informant), and those who chose to leave MOG and join that effort that was the center of controversy back then: Anthony Howard, Dan Roberts, etc.
I can't speak for any other message board. However, none of the individuals mentioned had ANY influence whatsoever in any decision making process concerning the operation of this board.

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"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861

Posts: 15323 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
discollector
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airforce wrote this on 11 / 20:

"Jimmy Wynn of the Georgia Militia was a member here for quite a while. My problem with him was that he was constantly trying to pick a fight with everyone who disagreed with him, even over minor things. When he left I tried to help him out with his own discussion board for a little while, but he just seemed to be a magnet for unneeded controversy."

That goes back to my original thesis. There were no little things. All the little things were actually big things and the same people having arguments on the MOG board were, most likely, arguing here. I've identified six of those individuals that posted here.

Again, there were no little things. William Cooper (of Behold a Pale Horse fame) identified Gary Hunt as being one of the John Does from the Murrah Bldg. bombing. On the boards, Hunt took the side of - surprise - Joe Sims. Do you know who was banned from discussion boards for arguing issues instead of the long standing allegations and counter allegations?

The above links go into those disputes, especially the link that goes to the Esquire article.

What made you go against the leadership of MOG?

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For God and country

Posts: 17 | From: Georgia | Registered: Nov 2017  | Report this post to a Moderator
discollector
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I'm almost glad at some level I started this post. The MOG organization has gotten a church to sponsor its activities. By that I mean that the church will loan MOG its facilities for meetings; let them use equipment for video and audio recording.

Everybody there would like to reach out to other militia groups and work with them. In reading the posts here, I know there is some miscommunication.

Yesterday, I had identified six previous posters from this board that were influencing the arguments we were embroiled in. Another was Terry Lee Ingram. He was a poster on this board. I'd be surprised if he were still alive. He too went from one side to the other, but the main people were, in fact, sell outs to the movement.

I can tell you that Charlie Puckett's sister spoke at MOG gatherings on more than three occasions. I'm not sure what problems you may have had with any of us in Georgia. On one site, the owner came under fire from the government. It was MOG that spirited that guy out of harms way. He repaid them by taking the side of the masses and banning all known MOG members from his site. His name was Steve and he lived in Florida.

All of us here want to work with other militias and we feel that we got dealt a bad hand somewhere along the line - miscommunication, C.I.s, disinformation artists, etc. If you looked at those links offered, we feel vindicated here. That was pretty much covered in our last meeting here. airforce said you could lead a horse to water.

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For God and country

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Hawk45
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The problem I had/have is accusations and no actual solid PROOF by both sides.

Lots of folks can selectively cut and paste things, but what if anything was actually brought and laid before a formally called 'Militia Board of Inquiry'? Did either side ask for one?

So far as I know, NOTHING was actually brought or even called for.

Frankly it is so long in the past, I would be surprised if any witnesses are even alive now, or if they are even care.

This is my LAST post on it.....well frankly, I do not give a rip one way or the other. Its y'alls baby, ROCK IT QUIETLY!

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discollector
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawk45:
The problem I had/have is accusations and no actual solid PROOF by both sides.

Lots of folks can selectively cut and paste things, but what if anything was actually brought and laid before a formally called 'Militia Board of Inquiry'? Did either side ask for one?

So far as I know, NOTHING was actually brought or even called for.

Frankly it is so long in the past, I would be surprised if any witnesses are even alive now, or if they are even care.

This is my LAST post on it.....well frankly, I do not give a rip one way or the other. Its y'alls baby, ROCK IT QUIETLY!

The above links said it all.

Now, people will either accept the fact that the MOG leadership was right or they won't. We did have tribunals here and inquiries by a Rules Committee made up of unit leaders from every unit in Georgia.

If I accept what you say, then was anyone connected to the Militia of Georgia brought up in any Board of Inquiry on a specific charge?

Did such a Board of Inquiry have jurisdiction over the parties?

I'm trying to build bridges, not walls. Sometimes you have to think back and figure out what mistakes each individual made.

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For God and country

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ConSigCor
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It was mentioned that the MOG leadership was banned from this board due to the lobbying efforts of certain individuals. That is factually incorrect.

AWRM has no interest in the internal politics, or infighting within any particular group. Unless, the parties involved come here and attempt to drag others who have nothing in the dispute into the mud with them. Then it becomes our concern.

As a general rule we strongly discourage members from airing "dirty laundry" or bad mouthing other members in open, public forums. Over the decades we have seen far too many innocent people falsely accused, publicly slandered and their reputations destroyed by people with their own self serving agenda. We encourage all who have a difference to take it up in private, off board. If they refuse, or persist in bringing their uncivil war here, then they can expect to be banned from posting.

In the Georgia case.

Certain individuals thought they knew better...or could do a better job than MOG so they decided to form their own group. Something they had a right to do.

Unfortunetly, ego's were in play. They couldn't just go their own way and do their own thing. They seemed determined to not only leave MOG but set out to destroy the "rival competition" and it's leader Jimmy Wynn. Naturally, Jimmy took offense to this and the slander those people were spreading around the net.

And, I took offense when these people tried to involve AWRM in their fight. I have very little tolerance for that kind of BS and told them so at the time. Of course that didn't set well with those who wanted to stir up a board war. When they didn't get their way they faded into oblivion and haven't been around here since.

Personally, I'm glad Jimmy persevered and that MOG is still around. I wish them well. Sadly, most of the old groups from the 90's are long gone.

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"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861

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discollector
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quote:
Originally posted by ConSigCor:
It was mentioned that the MOG leadership was banned from this board due to the lobbying efforts of certain individuals. That is factually incorrect.

AWRM has no interest in the internal politics, or infighting within any particular group. Unless, the parties involved come here and attempt to drag others who have nothing in the dispute into the mud with them. Then it becomes our concern.

As a general rule we strongly discourage members from airing "dirty laundry" or bad mouthing other members in open, public forums. Over the decades we have seen far too many innocent people falsely accused, publicly slandered and their reputations destroyed by people with their own self serving agenda. We encourage all who have a difference to take it up in private, off board. If they refuse, or persist in bringing their uncivil war here, then they can expect to be banned from posting.

In the Georgia case.

Certain individuals thought they knew better...or could do a better job than MOG so they decided to form their own group. Something they had a right to do.

Unfortunetly, ego's were in play. They couldn't just go their own way and do their own thing. They seemed determined to not only leave MOG but set out to destroy the "rival competition" and it's leader Jimmy Wynn. Naturally, Jimmy took offense to this and the slander those people were spreading around the net.

And, I took offense when these people tried to involve AWRM in their fight. I have very little tolerance for that kind of BS and told them so at the time. Of course that didn't set well with those who wanted to stir up a board war. When they didn't get their way they faded into oblivion and haven't been around here since.

Personally, I'm glad Jimmy persevered and that MOG is still around. I wish them well. Sadly, most of the old groups from the 90's are long gone.

Thank you for your perspective. The only point I differ with you on is that the other guys wanted to use the name Militia of Georgia.

They had every right to bail and start their own thing, but they were under contract not to use our name, logos, etc. and did so anyway.

It was reminiscent of the old Ku Klux Klan wars when the KKK name and logos went into the public domain. Factions popped up and committed acts of violence for which all those groups took the blame. Our state HQ is less than 15 miles from where the KKK was rebirthed in 1915. Whether you agree with them or not, it was the same strategy used against the Militia of Georgia.

The question today is: Did we learn enough from the past to help the next generation build a force to oppose tyranny with?

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For God and country

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The Answer
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What is the militia? What is it?

Revolutionaries? Warriors of a civil war? First responders to invasion, natural disaster? Preppers that can run and gun?

What is it that binds us in fate?

I don't know. Maybe I am weak, maybe I am a coward.

I believe we are what we make of ourselves. Can anyone define us? Or are we as diverse in means and intentions as the US population?

There are common grounds. Defense of the people. Helping the neighbors. Fighting oppression. But what can I look at to know it is time for action? And what must that action be?

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Semper vigilantes, numquam exspectantes

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