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» A Well Regulated Militia » Basic Training » School of the Soldier » Direction of flag on sleeve

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Author Topic: Direction of flag on sleeve
Huskerpatriot
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I've read in the NMS that the flag on the sleeve of the militia uniform is to fly "forwards" on the right sleeve, instead of the modern military "backwards".

Other than in the NMS, and other militia related forums/discussions... I've never been able to find a citation of when the us military switched from the "wind of God is behind us", to the reverse... "Charging into battle"...

I was trying to explain this to a sceptic, and would like some source to cite as they were thinking I was more than a bit off my rocker.

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"Government at its best is a necessary evil, and at it’s worst, an intolerable one."
 Thomas Paine (from "Common Sense" 1776)

Posts: 780 | From: Omaha Nebraska | Registered: Nov 2013  | Report this post to a Moderator
Kelldor42
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http://www.usflag.org/flagpatch.html

The regulation states that when authorized for application to the proper uniform the American flag patch is to be worn, right or left shoulder, so that “the star field faces forward, or to the flag’s own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the ‘reverse side flag’.” http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r670_1.pdf

I remember reading Rumsfeld did it so the shield is always flying forward like charging into battle.

Posts: 71 | From: Everett, Wa | Registered: Jul 2009  | Report this post to a Moderator
Archangel1
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I think that I prefer the "wind of God is behind us" concept.

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"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always Bad Men." Lord Actin 1887

I fear we live in evil times...

Posts: 710 | From: West | Registered: Feb 2012  | Report this post to a Moderator
Breacher
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelldor42:
http://www.usflag.org/flagpatch.html

The regulation states that when authorized for application to the proper uniform the American flag patch is to be worn, right or left shoulder, so that “the star field faces forward, or to the flag’s own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the ‘reverse side flag’.” http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r670_1.pdf

I remember reading Rumsfeld did it so the shield is always flying forward like charging into battle.

Correct, but we need to recognize the "when authorized to be worn".

Not "feeling patriotic". Happening to "feel patriotic" while sporting various patches from belief systems too broadly defined or group affiliations that are too large to even know who their membership is or sell their colors at Walmart, yeah that's not us. Or at least it should not be.

Keep the shoulder sleeve Velcro clear and then read up on laws and rules of modern warfare, or heck, ancient warfare before deciding how and where you are going to "patch up". It's a big deal if you are for real.

I personally have the "Don't Tread On Me" flag and the flagpole which had been abandoned by one of the primary authors of the NMS. I had found it when conducting a raid/recon on a former sanctuary site almost two years ago, after others had gone in and scavenged what they apparently had considered important. Most had followed the common cargo volume to value ratio of property recovery and of course looting. The people who had been in charge of the location had a skewed idea of the value since much of what was there had been donated by people who believed in the concept. Not exactly fast cash craigslist and pawn shop fundraising options for the drug addicted theif son of the property owners who had originally "offered" the site for construction and ongoing improvement of an off grid sanctuary and training coordination center.

A military officer I served under in the National Guard, incidentally not a milita supporter of our breed, was of the opinion that any flag or patch not provided by the command structure is an insult. He had risen to the rank of E6 and had a masters degree before getting commissioned through a fast track OCS program which the ROTC club made up of privelaged family folks didn't really want to recognize as "legitimate". So they parked him at 2nd LT for years. They did however, recognize his commission because they had to.

In the course of uniform changes, the big army mandated the reverse flags on sleeves of BDUs, in full color. Now this LT was of the opinion that the National Guard is the legitimate militia, and that national flags on Volunteer militia uniforms made it a big army owned situation, and if big army owned the situation, then big army needed to pay for the patches and installation of the patches, not telling soldiers what they had to go out and buy and pay for, because that would be an un funded mandate, and treating soldiers like a bunch of chubby yahoos who buy their medals and colorful ribbons at the surplus store to wear on cammies while sporting SKS rifles to fight against imaginary communists.

"Even the Boy Scouts issue their merit badges". He was miffed that I went ahead and just bought the flag patches and put them on my uniforms.

Got a feeling the LT was right. The idea that any of the patches on your uniform need to be bought and not earned and granted makes it just a specified costume in a volunteer costume troupe.

If a group doesn't have their shit together enough to issue your patches but wants you to wear their tag, then don't pollute yourself with their tag. It's lame as fuck to do that. If you can't check in with your section leader for your patches and flags, then it's as basic as a breakdown in command, control, and responsibility can ever possibly get.

Command elements have the right to buy and designate patches, in addition to e right to commission the making of any tags or patches they feel are appropriate to their groups.

Wearing unearned and un sanctioned flags or patches without legitimate affiliation is pure clown ass bullshit. Don't do it and don't be seen doing it. The USA flag included. That's why what Kelldor posted is important about that first part, authorized wearers. No, you don't have any right to "feel differently" from the authorizing party. The authorizing party of the regular 50 star US flag is the federal government and that's that.

I am not a flag burner by any stretch, but the federal government officially removed endorsement of my Constitutional rights but made the determination that I could keep my rank and veteran status, so I removed all federal flags from my stuff. You will never see the regular federal flag flown on anything I own or control, just the 13 star early flag (pre civil war) as a symbol of patriotism to the ideals of the early republic. I am not saying one is more "real" than the other, but one is definitely more appropriate for my purposes than the other. Likewise, I am under no oath whatsoever to federal government laws, command structure or direct or indirect regulatory control, except as a guideline to keeping out of trouble with the government, I have to cower to their laws on their turf just as any foreign national has to. It's not that I am a "sovereign citizen", I just recognized that it is counterproductive to be delusional.

[ 04-21-2017, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

Posts: 6705 | From: Western States | Registered: Sep 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
Breacher
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So in short:

Authorized and federally recognized organizations whether professional or volunteer: 50 star regular flag, ensign forward.

That means some government official meets with your group and recognizes you are the American XYZ of whatever it is you do, whether it is an armed role or not. For example, Boy Scouts, or the mechanics for a company that sometimes does maintenance for trucks on the sealift command. The boss of the tow truck company division may issue flag patches for the mechanic coveralls of that group. If they land in Kuwait and want to sport those patches along with their motorcycle club affiliation, that's legit. If they are on or off duty during a disaster clearing wrecked cars off a highway bridge, that's legit. If in doing so, they arm up to fight off looters, the flag remains a legit part of their uniform.

Marines who earn the EGA may always wear or display it, but may or may not display it with a flag. For example, during the Civil War, they split up between Confederate and Union forces. After the war, they recombined. Former airborne have the same rights with their wings, SF with their emblems. In some cases, organizations may be authorized to bestow the emblems on individuals who earn them with certain criteria. This was the case with a few groups running private military academy schools which use a criteria copied from and run by veterans of the actual service units.

SEALs retain the right to wear the trident for life but at some point in the 1990s it was determined they don't have the right to bestow the full version on other people. What Don Shipley has done is issue modified certificates and emblems to people who compete his courses which are patterned after the SEAL selection courses taught to foreign nationals and based on the real deal, but not officially recognized as the real deal while being fully respected as hard core stuff.

So the standards for wearing the flag may be low, but the standard is official group recognition of some sort. Not patriotic feeling. It also means you are going to voluntarily be under an official government command structure of some sort, a sponsoring entity where someone can call in and say "who are these guys" and some official of some sort may give a legitimate answer other than "don't know what you are talking about, their shit must have come from a surplus store."

So "feeling patriotic" but not under federal mandate, recognition or command, it's the 13 star flag when worn in conjunction with a militia uniform by affiliated or endorsed groups who are affiliated or endorsed by the NMS, but not recognized by the federal government.

False flagging that shit will lead to retaliation. Don't do it, don't fuck around pretending to play stupid and daring the consequences.

[ 04-21-2017, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

Posts: 6705 | From: Western States | Registered: Sep 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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