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Author Topic: Hutaree defense situation
Breacher
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OK, with the Dyer case won, Bladerunner pending appeal, Havoc case at least won to the point that he got a major sentence reduction, the next order of business is the Hutaree case.

Has anyone had any contact with them since their arrest?

Any info on where they are being held or any basic needs to be met?

Contact info for the defense team?

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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pcosmar
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No sorry. I have been following it, but it is far to my south. I had not heard of them till the story broke.
The folks that do know them have proven to be,,unhelpful.

--------------------
Friend of the Militia (UnArmed/Infringed)
I hope I can help, my country and my countrymen.

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Breacher
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Lets make it a goal at this point to find out where they are being held and where they can get mail.

I see some pictures on their website over a dozen members. One is being designated as a rat, nine in jail, where are the remaining ones? Are the on the run? Are they posting anywhere? Is anyone speaking for them at this point?

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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Sisu
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro08bILEvqc

WARNING explicit rap music. Seditious Conspiracy

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Breacher
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OK, made contact with the Fiance of one of the members. She has had either no or limited contact, but she has had some relatively reliable information he is being held at a St Claire county Jail in Michigan.

David B stone Jr is 19, has an 18 year old fiance Brittany with a son who is less than a year old.

According to the jail website, an inmate can be contacted by mail.

<clipped from the jail website>
MAIL
Letters and greeting cards (plain only; no glitter, stickers, glued items, etc.) may be sent to an inmate addressed to:
Inmate's Name
St. Clair County Jail
1170 Michigan
Port Huron, MI. 48060

David Brian Stone Jr
St. Clair County Jail
1170 Michigan
Port Huron, MI. 48060


INMATE MONEY AND PERSONAL PROPERTY
Upon admittance to the St. Clair County Jail all inmate money will be taken at the time of booking and will be deposited in an inmate trust fund. During the inmate's period of incarceration, purchases from the commissary will be accounted for and deducted from the inmate's trust fund. At the time of an inmate's release, a check for the balance of the inmate's account will be issued, minus whatever medical expenses were incurred during their incarceration. Upon transfer to another facility, inmate property will be only be stored for 30 days. Inmate property will not be released while the inmate is in custody. Special circumstances will be reviewed by the on-duty Supervisor.

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES IS THE MONEY TO BE KEPT BY INMATES IN THEIR LIVING AREA.

All personal property belonging to the inmate at the time of admittance will be confiscated by the booking officers and accounted for. The inmate will sign for this property and it will be returned upon the inmate's discharge. Jewelry will not be permitted in the confines of the Jail with the exception of a wedding ring, if worn by the inmate at the time of admittance to The St. Clair County Jail.

Do not send cash through the mail!!!

All mail is opened and checked for money orders or contraband. The only kind of money orders accepted is United States Postal and Bank Money order (purchased at local bank Only).
<<<<<end clipped excerpt from jail website>>>>>>

I suggest test letters with maybe $20 in a federal postal money order. Return name and address sterile.

Do not say or do anything that would be taken as incriminating. Whoever can make contact, try to determine their conditions of confinement, medical needs, whether or not they are being fed (Dyer was apparently reduced to one meal a day for several days). Also important, whether they have been drugged, threatened, beaten or denied/delayed medical care for injuries.

[ 05-01-2010, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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Breacher
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Christopher Sickles is apparently being held apart from the others. Last reported location is the Sanilac County Jail in Michigan. I am not finding a website for them yet. Prison talk forum has this information on the location:


Sanilac County Jail

65 N. Elk
Sandusky, MI 48471

(810) 648-8351 - admin
(810) 648-8338 - jail

Guessing that the address would be

Khristopher Sickles
C/O Sanilac County Jail
65 N. Elk
Sandusky, MI 48471

We can guess that rules on money and restrictions on items sent are going to be the same as with the other places. Maybe someone can call and find out any additional regulations they might have.

Other info incoming, the largest group is being held at that St Clair county jail

As mentioned before

David Brian Stone Jr.
St. Clair County Jail
1170 Michigan
Port Huron, MI. 48060

Joshua Matthew Stone,
St. Clair County Jail
1170 Michigan
Port Huron, MI. 48060

Joshua Clough
St. Clair County Jail
1170 Michigan
Port Huron, MI. 48060

Jacob J Ward
St. Clair County Jail
1170 Michigan
Port Huron, MI. 48060

Michael David Meeks
St. Clair County Jail
1170 Michigan
Port Huron, MI. 48060

David (Captian Hutaree) and Tina Stone are being held at the Wayne county jail(s) in Michigan. Apparently that department runs multiple jail locations, this info comes from their website. The Wayne County Sheriffs department operates three jails, the Hutaree are apparently being held at the main one.

David Brian Stone Sr 2010007965
Wayne County Jail Division 1
570 Clinton Street
Detroit, MI 48226

Tina Mae Stone 2010007520
Wayne County Jail Division 1
570 Clinton Street
Detroit, MI 48226

Thomas W Piatek is in federal holding transit (from BOP.GOV)
THOMAS WILLIAM PIATEK 10633-027 46-White-M UNKNOWN IN TRANSIT


(Names from Wikipedia)

* Tina Mae Stone, 44 (a.k.a. "T-Bod", "She-Stone", "Stink Star")
* Joshua Matthew Stone, 21 (a.k.a. "Josh")
* David Brian Stone Sr., 44, center (a.k.a "RD", "Joe Stonewall", "Captain Hutaree")
* David Brian Stone Jr., 19 (a.k.a "Junior", "Jaggers", "BearBack" )
* Thomas William Piatek, 46 (a.k.a. "T-Rock" )
* Michael David Meeks, 40 (a.k.a. "Mikey" )
* Kristopher T. Sickles, 27 (a.k.a "Pale Horse", "Horse Rock")
* Joshua Clough, 28 (a.k.a. "Azzurlin", "Az", "Mouse", "Jason Z", "Charles")
* Jacob J. Ward, 33 (a.k.a. "Jake", "Nasty Nate")

[ 05-02-2010, 02:48 AM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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J. Croft
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They're being released, but they willl be on a VERY short leash:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100503/METRO/5030374/Judge-grants-bond-for-Hutaree-militia-members


Judge grants bond for Hutaree militia members
Paul Egan / The Detroit News
Detroit -- A federal judge has found that all nine members of the Hutaree accused of plotting a violent battle with government forces should be released from custody pending their trials.

U.S. District Judge Victoria A. Roberts ruled this morning that they will be subject to home detention and electronic monitoring with curfews.

Federal prosecutors might appeal the ruling and ask Roberts to stay her order pending the appeal.


"We don't know right now," said Susan Plochinksi, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's Office. "We're reviewing the order and assessing all of our options."

Roberts said there were bond conditions that could help assure public safety and attendance of the defendants at future court proceedings.

Alleged leader David Stone Sr. and eight followers were arrested in a series of raids that started March 27. A grand jury indictment unsealed March 29 charges them with seditious conspiracy and attempted use of weapons of mass destruction.

Prosecutors say the Lenawee County-based group was planning to kill a police officer and then use bombs to attack the scores of officers drawn to the slain officer's funeral. The group hoped the killing would spark a general uprising against the government, prosecutors allege.

"Discussions about killing local law enforcement officers -- and even discussions about killing members of the judicial branch of government -- do not translate to conspiring to overthrow, or levy war against, the United States government," Roberts said in her order.

"We're very pleased," said Detroit attorney William Swor, who represents Stone. He cautioned he had not had a chance to read the 36-page opinion.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Donald Scheer and a magistrate judge in Indiana ordered all the defendants held without bond to await trial. But in two days of hearings last week, defense lawyers appealed those decisions to Roberts, who expressed concern about the weight of the evidence on the sedition charge.

Accused along with Stone are: his wife, Tina Stone, 44 and his son, Joshua Matthew Stone, 21, both of Clayton; and his stepson, David Brian Stone, Jr., 19, of Adrian. Also accused are Joshua Clough, 28, of Blissfield; Michael Meeks, 40, of Manchester; Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Ind.; Kristopher Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; and Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio.

Among the conditions imposed by Roberts, the nine must surrender all guns and gun licenses and cannot apply for gun licenses. They must seek employment and report to federal authorities weekly. They also cannot drink alcohol or use drugs and will be tested regularly.

They also cannot have contact with each other unless their attorney is present.

"I'm obviously very pleased for Joshua," said Randall Roberts, the Ann Arbor attorney representing Joshua Clough. He said the opinion "directly addressed all of the concerns," but he wasn't sure how soon Clough might be released.

The accused must also provide lists of all other Hutaree members and any other militia groups they associated with, Roberts ruled.

The judge also put other restrictions on individual members. David Brian Stone Sr. cannot associate or have contact with Mark Koernke, a long-time militia advocate who has broadcast pro-militia radio programs. Stone also cannot use a computer or the Internet.

Stone's wife Tina, who was described as the communications specialist of the Hutaree, is banned from using a computer or the Internet, as well. Clough, who operated the group's website, is ordered to shut it down and refrain from starting any other website. He must also get a mental health evaluation and refrain from using a computer or the Internet.

Ward must get a mental health evaluation. Meeks must get an alcohol assessment.

pegan@detnews.com (313) 222-2069

Anybody know any go-betweens?

--------------------
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Total Resistance
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Internet = WMD

Guess that means that the government wants to restrict who they are allowed to give their side to which is no one.

No contact with Mark Koernke? What makes Mark Koernke special that someone on bail is not allowed to talk with him?

--------------------
www.civiliandefenseforce.com

Rule #1 - You do not publically bad mouth a fellow patriot.

"Being innocent is simply not enough for the government," Denise Simon

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Red River Ranger
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So if none of them can use the internet, how can we talk to them? Are we allowed to go to them in person and request an interview, etc, or is that all included in the restrictions? I can't seem to find anything on the restrictions other than news articles.

anything anybody has on this would be appreciated!

RRR

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Breacher
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I have one go-between available.

I think only the top guy is banned from net use. The restriction is not listed elsewhere.

There is some stuff going on between Koernke and Jim Stach, they apparently don't like each other but don't talk to each other. Hopefully they can get diplomatic about it and sort things out.

"Koernke rule" might go back to his prison time, as he had been in the Michigan prison system and I suspect got classified as a "gang leader". His crew was also not exactly a bunch of peaceful grass eaters when he was locked up, at least one suspected snitch got shot to death. They even killed one guy who was going to quit their crew. None of it was proven to have been ordered by Mark but some of his guys are still doing time over it. Mark is a little more hard core than you might think.

Several attempts were made on Koerkne's life in prison, the sort of stuff made look like accident or suicide but not a direct government murder or one of those "hung himself by a bedsheet in the cell" types of things. Reliable sources tell me it was usually involving long periods of confinement with people thought to be haters of the militia, and lifers who had killed previous cellmates.

[ 05-03-2010, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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airforce
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Judge Roberts' skepticism about the government's case bodes well for how the trial itself may play out. This is a very good sign.

Note: Judge Roberts and I are not related.

Onward and upward,
airforce

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Breacher
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Not so fast, the release order makes jail look almost preferable.

V. CONCLUSION AND CONDITIONS OF RELEASE
The Court GRANTS Defendants’ motions, and imposes a combination of
conditions that the Court believes will reasonably assure their appearance in Court as
required, and the safety of the community.
The following conditions of release apply to all Defendants:
(1) home detention with electronic monitoring and curfew as directed;
(2) surrender CCW permits;
(3) surrender licenses to carry or purchase guns;
(4) cannot apply for a license to carry or purchase guns;
(5) cannot drink alcohol;
(6) cannot use illegal drugs;
(7) subject to drug testing and/or treatment;
(8) seek or maintain employment;
(9) report to Pretrial Services on a weekly basis;
(10) provide phone records to Pretrial Services as directed
(11) provide a list of names, addresses, and phone numbers for all Hutaree
members;
(12) provide a list of names, addresses, and phone numbers for members of
any other militia groups they associated with;
(13) submit to random visits from Pretrial Services;
(14) cannot possess, borrow, or be near firearms, ammunition, explosives or
other dangerous weapons;
(15) cannot have contact with any co-Defendant, without counsel present;
(16) cannot have contact with witnesses, without counsel present;
(17) cannot associate with, have contact with, or communicate with any
convicted felons;
(18) cannot associate with, or have unsolicited contact or communication with
law enforcement officers or other government employees, without counsel
present;
(19) cannot allow law enforcement officers inside Defendants’ place of
residence, except for official police business;
(20) surrender passports;
(21) cannot apply for a passport;
(22) cannot use a police scanner;
(23) cannot associate with, contact, or communicate with any militia or
paramilitary group and/or person associated with any militia or paramilitary
group, without counsel present; and
(24) cannot participate in militia or paramilitary activities.
In addition to the above-listed conditions:
(1) David Stone cannot use a computer or the Internet. David Stone cannot
associate with, contact, or communicate with Mark Koernke. David
Stone’s father, Ray Stone, is appointed his third-party custodian. Ray
Stone must surrender all firearms and other dangerous weapons. David
Stone’s travel is restricted to the Eastern District of Michigan;

(2) David Stone, Jr. must live with his mother, Donna Popejoy. Donna
Popejoy is appointed his third-party custodian. Donna Popejoy, and her
husband, Harry Popejoy, must surrender all firearms and other dangerous
weapons. David Stone, Jr.’s travel is restricted to the Eastern District of
Michigan;
(3) Joshua Stone will live with his wife, Shannon Stone. Shannon must
establish residency, and provide proof of residency to Pretrial Services,
before Joshua Stone is released. Joshua Stone’s travel is restricted to the
Eastern District of Michigan;
(4) Tina Stone cannot use a computer or the Internet. Tina Stone must live
with her parents, Timothy Michael Kelley and Henrietta Kelley, who are
appointed third-party custodians. Tina Stone’s travel is restricted to the
State of Michigan;
(5) Clough must get mental health assessment and counseling. Clough must
shut down the Hutaree website, and cannot establish any subsequent
website while this matter is pending, or until further order of the Court.
After he shuts down the website, Clough cannot use a computer or the
Internet. Clough’s parents, William Clough and Charlotte Clough, are
appointed his third-party custodians. Charlotte Clough and William Clough
must surrender all dangerous weapons. Clough must live with his
parents. Clough’s travel is restricted to the Eastern District of Michigan;
(6) Meeks must get alcohol assessment and treatment. Meeks must live with
his parents, Eugene Meeks and Sylvia Meeks, who are appointed thirdparty
custodians. Meeks’ travel is restricted to the Eastern District of
Michigan;
(7) Piatek’s brother, Stanley Piatek, is appointed his third-party custodian.
Piatek’s travel is restricted to the Eastern District of Michigan, the Northern
District of Indiana, the Northern District of Illinois (for employment
purposes only), and points in between;
(8) Sickles’ wife, Kelly Sickles, is appointed his third-party custodian. Sickles’
travel is restricted to the Eastern District of Michigan, the Northern District
of Ohio, and points in between;
(9) Ward must get mental health assessment and counseling. Ward’s
mother, Nadine Bober (a Correctional Officer), is appointed his third-party
custodian. Ward’s travel is restricted to the Eastern District of Michigan,
the Northern District of Ohio, and points in between.
(10) All Third Party Custodians must sign an Agreement to Assume Custody of their respective Defendant.

IT IS ORDERED.
s/Victoria A. Roberts
Victoria A. Roberts
United States District Judge

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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airforce
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quote:
Originally posted by Breacher:
Not so fast, the release order makes jail look almost preferable.

They're definitely being kept on a short leash, but read the standard bail bondsman contract. It's not really a whole lot different from a the terms any felony defendant receives when bail is granted. The big difference is the ankle bracelet, and even that is not so unusual any more. And these terms may well be loosened a bit in the future, on a case-by-case basis.

I still say this is a very good sign. The government really tried to keep these defendants in jail, but the judge's skepticism about the charges was obvious.

Onward and upward,
airforce

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D308cat
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Sounds like its still a win for the FEDS,With all the limitations on family, They capture 9 on bogus charges and end up disarming 30 not to speak of turning them into mandatory snitches. Who knows who the Feds will bag with that info. I said it before, give 3 go free ,New players same game and all without a shot being fired, I hope they don't turn on there fellow patriots. Maybe this will backfire on the BBQ Moolisha who threw them under the Bus after training with them. SEMPER FI

--------------------
PSALM 144:01 Blessed be the LORD my Rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle---

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Breacher
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After all that happened, if they did blab about the Michigan militia groups who backstabbed them, who would take sides.

Think I might stay on the sidelines for that rat fest, but generally speaking, the first one to rat is the worst one to rat. If someone drops the dime, then burns the guy who drops the manhole cover back on the guy who snitched in the first place, then the guys who snitched and old people out in the first place just get to learn the lesson of tough luck.

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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ConSigCor
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(12) provide a list of names, addresses, and phone numbers for members of
any other militia groups they associated with;

(23) cannot associate with, contact, or communicate with any militia or
paramilitary group and/or person associated with any militia or paramilitary
group, without counsel present;


(5) Clough must get mental health assessment and counseling. Clough must
shut down the Hutaree website, and cannot establish any subsequent
website while this matter is pending, or until further order of the Court.
After he shuts down the website, Clough cannot use a computer or the
Internet.



Someone needs to make a full back up copy of their websites before uncle has the chance to alter or distort evidence. Once the sites are gone how would anyone know what was actually said???

Posts: 15962 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
MedicineMan


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quote:
Originally posted by Breacher:
Not so fast, the release order makes jail look almost preferable.

V. CONCLUSION AND CONDITIONS OF RELEASE
The Court GRANTS Defendants’ motions, and imposes a combination of
conditions that the Court believes will reasonably assure their appearance in Court as
required, and the safety of the community.
The following conditions of release apply to all Defendants:

(10) provide phone records to Pretrial Services as directed

(11) provide a list of names, addresses, and phone numbers for all Hutaree
members;

(12) provide a list of names, addresses, and phone numbers for members of
any other militia groups they associated with;

IT IS ORDERED.
s/Victoria A. Roberts
Victoria A. Roberts
United States District Judge

Hear Ye, Hear Ye.......

Witness one and all the birth of NINE FEDERAL SNITCHES.

This is how the bastards work on people to make them reveal things best left secret.

We will see if they are honorable and keep their mouths shut, or if they freely give up everyone they can remember ever meeting or corresponding with.
(i won't hold my breath for the honor thing)

They better off staying in jail.
That way they don't have to throw others under the bus.

Remember that most "groups" don't appreciate that kind of stuff.
there are SOME groups that aren't as nice and LAW ABIDING as the Militia is.

They even sell shirts and stuff with this message.......

 -

[ 05-03-2010, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: MedicineMan ]

--------------------
"MedicineMan"
http://www.dixiepreparedness.org

"If they come in the morning, I'll be right here."
-Mitch Walking Elk

MILITIA -
The original HOMELAND DEFENSE!!!
- MedicineMan (ECCMMDOC)

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airforce
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We'll have to wait a few more hours before the Hutaree are released on bond:

quote:
A federal judge late Monday agreed to delay until 5 p.m. Wednesday a decision to release nine members of a Lenawee County Christian militia group, who were expected to be released this morning.

U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts said the government's request for a stay was "woefully inadequate," but said that given the public interest in her decision Monday to grant bond to the defendants, a temporary delay was justified.

Roberts gave prosecutors until 5 p.m. Wednesday to tell her whether the U.S. Solicitor General will appeal.

U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade asked for the stay early Monday night saying the Hutaree militia members had threatened to kill police, and in light of Monday's fatal police shooting in Detroit: "Given the defendants' obvious animosity towards police officers and their previous discussion regarding their intent to bomb a police funeral, this fact presents additional reasonable basis for the requested stay."

I don't expect the prosecution to prevail here, but I guess we'll find out soon.

Onward and upward,
airforce

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ConSigCor
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The government and the media would have us beleive that only militia extremists threaten our law enforcement officers.

I guess it's ok when a mexican does it publicly. Where's the outrage? Why aren't they arresting this dangerous radical extremist???

Pro-Illegal Immigration Protester Threatens to Murder Police

[ 05-04-2010, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: ConSigCor ]

Posts: 15962 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Breacher
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No, information is moving fast now. The NYC bombing was being made to look domestic, but turned out to be another Arab. Then we have the oil rig attack in the Gulf.

There might be a lot of reasons why the undercover guy in the Hutaree case is not being produced. I got a feeling the feds are figuring out what I am figuring out - we have all been getting played by the Muslims.

Look how the focus got put on our movement, then the Arabs start doing hits. I think the Arabs have been smarter than we are giving them credit for and we are in for a long rough summer.

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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Rudy
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Why can't someone else put the hutaree website back on line once it is shut down? As long as they aren't in charge of it they would be following the judge's decree.

--------------------
Rudy out
"Once the pin is pulled, Mr. Handgrenade is no longer our friend."

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Sisu
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Just use wget and make a mirror. The domain could be sold or given away. I'm not sure what SHUT DOWN means... delete all the pages? sell the domain? Give it away? Pay to keep it registered so no one could ever use it?

Court order is very vague...

S

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Breacher
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If it gets shut down, the discussions can get shunted over to someone else's website. There are plenty of people who would host Hutaree discussions for them.

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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pcosmar
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Their forum needs to be checked to see if any of the garbage is actionable.
And the rest deleted.
They had an open forum, and it was overrun with trolls of the most vile sort from the day they were arrested.

I stopped in there before it was overrun, to see what they were about.
I had found nothing objectionable.

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Friend of the Militia (UnArmed/Infringed)
I hope I can help, my country and my countrymen.

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airforce
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The Associated Press is questioning the government's case, too. Here's a snippet:

quote:
Federal authorities touted the arrests of nine members of a Michigan militia as a pre-emptive strike against homegrown terrorists, declaring at an initial court hearing that the suspects with "dark hearts and evil intent" wanted to go to war against the government.

Five weeks later, prosecutors are scrambling to regroup after a judge questioned the strength of their evidence by ordering the so-called rebels released until trial and saying they had a right to "engage in hate-filled, venomous speech."

"The government is falling short," said David Griem, a former federal prosecutor who's not involved in the case. "The message that's been sent to the community is there are problems with this case."

During two days of hearings last week before U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts, prosecutors tried to show how dangerous they perceived the Hutaree militia to be by playing secretly recorded conversations. Those talks, however, revealed no specific plot. Under questioning by defense attorneys, the FBI's lead agent on the case seemed unprepared...

No kidding.

Onward and upward,
airforce

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J. Croft
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Muslims. Probably retaliating for putting the blame on them for 9/11. And being over there.

There isn't going to be an easy way out of this with them. If Muslim training camps are being shielded by factions within the government, infiltrators among the Mexicans, God knows what was imported into the USA by the Chinese looking to provide fuel... er, guns and ammo for a multi-faceted civil/race war then there is NO way out of this. Even IF those abandoned Korans were planted there to scare aware Americans the enemy has arranged a horrific clusterfuck hoping we'll exterminate each other.

Only way out is to communicate with Blacks, Latinos, Native Americans, White Separatists and yes, Muslims see if we can't see a common enemy pulling all our strings.

--------------------
Be your own leader

freedomguide.blogspot.com
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youtube.com/user/freedomguide

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Sisu
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http://www.detnews.com/article/20100505/METRO/5050426/1409/METRO/Prosecutors-appeal-planned-release-of-Hutaree-militia

Just read it...

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airforce
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Judge Victoria Roberts calls fed bond motion "woefully inadequate."

quote:


All hail our woefully inadequate federal government! What's to argue with in that? heh!

Federal prosecutors have filed an appeal of a judge's decision to release militia suspects on bond five-minutes before the deadline. It's reported that the judge's ruling was 36 pages long because she did her homework and didn't want to risk being overturned on the issue. Meanwhile, the defense contends this is mostly about "fantasy and empty, inane bluster" on the part of the alleged conspirators. More via the AP. Keep in mind, there were plenty of conditions placed upon them as part of the release, including monitoring bracelets.

I suspect this is more about face-saving than anything. It's hard to see how they could harm anyone, or anything under the conditions of their intended pre-trial release. I also suspect they've now seriously antagonized said judge.

quote:
But at two days of bond appeal hearings and in her order, Roberts expressed doubts about the weight of the government's evidence against the members of the militia based in Lenawee County.

She also described the government's motion seeking a stay of her bond order as "woefully inadequate."

It's not known when Roberts will rule on the government's stay request -- filed just minutes before a 5 p.m. Wednesday deadline -- but the soonest anyone will be released is Thursday.


Detroit --Bond conditions imposed on nine Hutaree militia defendants are "contradictory or present practical difficulties in their application," and are "ineffective at reasonably assuring public safety," federal prosecutors said today in asking a judge to delay their release.

U.S. District Judge Victoria A. Roberts on Monday ordered the defendants -- accused of plotting to kill police officers and spark a general uprising against the U.S. government -- released to home detention with electronic tethers and other controls.

Federal prosecutors appealed the order today to the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals. In a motion filed late today asking Roberts to stay her release order until the appeal is heard, prosecutors said: "If the defendants were to flee or to cause even a fraction of the harm they have repeatedly and fervently spoken of and planned for, no ruling by the 6th Circuit could undo that damage."

But in another filing today, attorneys for defendant David Stone Jr. said the Hutaree discussions of killing police officers are "fantasy and empty, inane bluster."


Onward and upward,
airforce

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ConSigCor
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Hutaree members head to court for release

Paul Egan / The Detroit News

Detroit -- Nine Hutaree militia defendants are to appear in federal court at 11 a.m. today to be released on bond, a court official said.

Rod Hansen said the prisoners are being moved to Detroit from prisons in Sanilac, St. Clair and Wayne counties and will be released in response to a Wednesday order from U.S. District Judge Victoria A. Roberts.

U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade said this morning prosecutors, however, asked the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals for an emergency stay of Roberts' order.

"They pose a danger to law enforcement and the community," McQuade said. "We owe it to law enforcement and the community to try to protect them."

In the emergency motion, prosecutors said: "The defendants are scheduled for release today at 11 a.m. necessitating the filing of the ... emergency motion."

In the motion prosecutors also said the defendants "talked openly about the coming war with the United States government."

Roberts had denied the government's request for a stay and ordered all nine Hutaree militia defendants released on bond.

"The government simply failed to establish, by clear and convincing evidence, that the seriousness of the charges ... is sufficient for the court to conclude that there were no conditions that will reasonably assure the safety of the community," Roberts said in an order.

Prosecutors now hope the appeals court will grant the emergency stay of Roberts' order.

"If the defendants were to flee or to cause even a fraction of the harm they have repeatedly and fervently spoken of and planned for, no ruling by the 6th Circuit could undo that damage," said Assistant U.S. Attorneys Ronald Waterstreet and Joseph Falvey.

An FBI agent who infiltrated the Lenawee County-based group secretly recorded conversations in which alleged leader David Stone Sr. and other members discussed killing police officers and Stone suggested using explosives to attack a police funeral. Lawyers for the defendants describe the talk as "fantasy and empty, inane bluster."

Prosecutors have cited Saturday's funeral for Detroit Police Officer Brian Huff, killed in the line of duty Monday, as a reason for delaying any releases.

That is "baseless and inflammatory," lawyers for Stone's adopted son David Stone Jr., said in a court filing Wednesday.

Prosecutors said the bond conditions Roberts imposed are contradictory, difficult to apply and "ineffective at reasonably assuring public safety."

But they gave no details in a brief filed just before Wednesday's 5 p.m. deadline, saying they planned to address the deficiencies in a separate court filing.

The defendants are charged with seditious conspiracy and attempted use of weapons of mass destruction -- charges that carry penalties of up to life in prison.

But after two days of bond appeal hearings and in her order, Roberts expressed doubts about the weight of the government's sedition case.

She also said the government's original motion seeking a stay, filed Monday, is "woefully inadequate."

[ 05-06-2010, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: ConSigCor ]

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ConSigCor
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UPDATE:


May 6, 11:50 AM EDT

Court halts release of jailed militia members

By ED WHITE
Associated Press Writer,

DETROIT (AP) -- A federal appeals court has stopped the release of nine jailed Michigan militia members accused of conspiring to overthrow the U.S. government.

The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati issued an emergency stay Thursday morning.

The nine were expected to be returned to U.S. District Court in Detroit to be processed before being released until trial but the appeals court keeps them in jail. The defense has until 5 p.m. to respond.

May 6, 12:07 PM EDT

Court halts release of jailed militia members

By ED WHITE
Associated Press Writer
Advertisement

DETROIT (AP) -- A federal appeals court on Thursday issued an emergency stay blocking, at least temporarily, the release of nine jailed Michigan militia members accused of conspiring to overthrow the U.S. government.

The 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati issued the stay shortly after U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade filed a motion seeking the order. Defense attorneys have until 5 p.m. to respond.

The nine were expected to be returned to U.S. District Court in Detroit to be processed at 11 a.m. before being released until trial.

"It's frustrating, to be sure," said Michael Rataj, attorney for Tina Stone, 44, the wife of militia leader David Stone, 44. "She's disappointed. She thought she was going home."

In a ruling late Wednesday, U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts said she would not further suspend her Monday order that releases the militia members with strict rules, including electronic monitoring and curfews.

"We don't think the conditions are satisfactory," McQuade said. "We think the defendants pose a danger to the public and to law enforcement in particular. It's my duty to protect the safety of the public."

Roberts had ordered the militia members released Monday, then suspended her decision while prosecutors decided whether to appeal. They will appeal, but she was not persuaded to freeze the order any longer.

"Defendants are presumed innocent of all charges against them. ... This presumption of innocence is part and parcel of why, 'In our society liberty is the norm, and detention prior to trial or without trial is the carefully limited exception,'" Roberts wrote, quoting a 1987 U.S. Supreme Court decision.


....

[ 05-06-2010, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: ConSigCor ]

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Bladerunner
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Fishing expedition. Same thing they wanted me to do. Start reporting on everyone and everything I knew. Refuse to play ball and the feebs cop an attitude like a school yard bully used to getting his way.

--------------------
Outlaw guns of honest civilians, violent crime rises.
Encourage guns of honest civilians, violent crime falls.
(PS: Above includes murders committed by governments.)
(PSS: Including your own.)

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ConSigCor
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UPDATE:

May 06. 2010 2:02PM

Appeals court halts Hutaree release
Paul Egan and Mike Wilkinson / The Detroit News

Detroit -- A federal appeals court temporarily halted the release of nine Hutaree militia defendants today, just moments before they were scheduled to be set free.

"The order of revocation is temporarily stayed pending further review and order of the court," the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals said in response to an emergency motion from federal prosecutors in Detroit.

The effect of the order is that none of the defendants will be released before Friday. The court said lawyers for the defendants are to file briefs opposing the stay by 5 p.m. today.

The Hutaree militia defendants -- accused of plotting to kill police officers and spark a general uprising against the U.S. government -- were moved to the federal courthouse in Detroit today from prisons in Sanilac, St. Clair and Wayne counties to be released on bond in response to an order from U.S. District Judge Victoria A. Roberts.

The Lenawee County-based militia members appeared in court today, some in street clothes, and showed no emotion at the appeals court's decision.

Defense attorneys attacked the prosecutors' appeal and said they expected the appellate court to uphold Roberts' earlier ruling that called for their release.

"It seems to me the government is playing games at this point," said Mark Satawa, attorney for defendant Michael Meeks. "We're delaying the inevitable."

Satawa and other attorneys praised Roberts, who called the government's original motion seeking a stay "woefully inadequate." They said prosecutors have failed to prove that she erred.

"It's unfortunate the government is such sore losers," Satawa said.

The attorneys said their clients and their families were disappointed by the federal appeals court's decision. Todd Shanker, attorney for David Brian Stone Jr., said his client wants to return to his infant son.

"He wants to get back with his 7-month-old son," Shanker said. "He wants to get back with his fiancee, with his family."

U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade asked the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals for an emergency stay of Roberts' order this morning.

"They pose a danger to law enforcement and the community," McQuade said. "We owe it to law enforcement and the community to try to protect them."

In the motion for the stay, prosecutors said the defendants "talked openly about the coming war with the United States government."

Roberts on Wednesday had denied the government's request for a stay and ordered all nine Hutaree militia defendants released on bond.

"The government simply failed to establish, by clear and convincing evidence, that the seriousness of the charges ... is sufficient for the court to conclude that there were no conditions that will reasonably assure the safety of the community," Roberts said in an order.

An FBI agent who infiltrated the Lenawee County-based group secretly recorded conversations in which alleged leader Stone Sr. and other members discussed killing police officers and Stone suggested using explosives to attack a police funeral. Lawyers for the defendants describe the talk as "fantasy and empty, inane bluster."Prosecutors have cited Saturday's funeral for Detroit Police Officer Brian Huff, killed in the line of duty Monday, as a reason for delaying any releases.

"I have no idea what they're trying to do," said William Swor, attorney for alleged militia leader David Stone Sr., about linking the funeral to the Hutaree case. "They're behaving themselves, and they should be released."

Randall Roberts, attorney for militia member Joshua Clough, also didn't know why prosecutors were connecting the funeral to the case.

"There's been reference to that in court," Roberts said today after the hearing.

Prosecutors said the bond conditions Roberts imposed are contradictory, difficult to apply and "ineffective at reasonably assuring public safety."

But they gave no details in a brief filed just before Wednesday's 5 p.m. deadline, saying they planned to address the deficiencies in a separate court filing.

The defendants are charged with seditious conspiracy and attempted use of weapons of mass destruction -- charges that carry penalties of up to life in prison.

But after two days of bond appeal hearings and in her order, Roberts expressed doubts about the weight of the government's sedition case.

Stone Sr., 45, and eight others were arrested in a series of raids that started March 27. Indicted with Stone are his wife, Tina Stone, 44, and his son, Joshua Matthew Stone, 21, both of Clayton; and his adopted son, David Brian Stone Jr., 19, of Adrian. Also accused are Joshua Clough, 28, of Blissfield; Michael Meeks, 40, of Manchester; Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Ind.; Kristopher Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; and Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio.

Staff writer George Hunter contributed to this report.

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APatientMan
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The government just doesn't even care how tyrannical they prove themselves to be anymore. Just amazing. Blatant abuse of power and complete disregard for the freedoms and rights protected by our Constitution.

Judge Roberts ought to be on the short list for the Supreme Court seat. It's rare that I hear a judge's decision and think - wow, this person understands the concept of limited government that our Founders intended.

--------------------
Freedom is that instant between when someone tells you to do something and when you decide how to respond

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ConSigCor
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quote:
"They're bad losers," attorney Mark Satawa told reporters, referring to the government. "I fully expect that the 6th Circuit will resolve this quickly."
quote:
Defense attorney Christopher Seikaly said the restrictions Roberts set, including electronic monitors and curfews, would be similar to house arrest and ensure the public's safety. The defendants would be allowed to go to work, see a doctor and visit their lawyers, but not much more.

"They can't hang out at the corner pool hall," Seikaly said.

quote:
Defense lawyers met a late-afternoon deadline to respond at the appeals court. They said Roberts' decision cannot be overturned unless the three-judge panel finds "clearly erroneous findings of fact."

She had the "opportunity of listening and viewing the witnesses and is in the special position to rule on the facts that were brought forth," nine attorneys wrote. "Judge Roberts should not be overturned considering the depth and detail of her opinion and her cogent analysis of the strength of the government's case."

Much of the government's evidence made public so far shows militia members talking about killing police officers and attacking officers who turn up for the funeral. No specific plot with specific targets has been disclosed. The judge did acknowledge the group had "stockpiles" of legal weapons and ammunition.

Defense attorneys say the conversations may contain repulsive speech and violent scenarios. But the talk is also peppered with laughter, "childish sounds and noises" and "detail-barren" schemes, attorneys Richard Helfrick and Todd Shanker wrote this week.


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ConSigCor
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http://www.infowars.com/the-hutaree-case-falls-apart/

Federal District Judge Victoria Roberts has ruled that the nine members of the so-called Hutaree Militia accused of plotting to wage war against the Regime can be released on bail. Prosecutors had argued that bail should be denied because the group posed a severe danger to public safety.

The Hutaree group is accused of “seditious conspiracy” — specifically, plotting to murder a law enforcement officer and then follow up with opportunistic attacks on other LEOs who would attend the funeral. This would supposedly precipitate a wide-scale revolt.

Conversations discussing that scenario were reported by a federal informant who infiltrated the group and thoughtfully offered to teach them how to make improvised explosive devices.

While federal prosecutors have provided ample evidence that members of the Hutaree are passionately anti-government — what decent person isn’t? — they haven’t been able to demonstrate that the group did anything more than engage in survivalist training and indulge in apocalyptic rhetoric.

Defense attorneys, citing the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1969 Brandenburg v. Ohio decision, maintain that seditious speech — including speech that constitutes an incitement to violence — is protected by the First Amendment as long as it does not indicate an “imminent” threat.

The prosecutors’ brief, invoking the the 1995 seditious conspiracy trial of Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, maintained that it was not necessary to demonstrate a threat of imminent harm, but rather only that the defendants had formed an “agreement to oppose by force the authority of the United States.”

(Incidentally, it was because of the CIA’s intervention that Rahman got a visa to enter the United States, where he became part of the radical Muslim terrorist cell that carried out the first World Trade Center attack in 1993; that cell included at least three others who had been on the payroll of U.S. intelligence.)

Judge Roberts didn’t find the government’s case compelling.

“Discussions about killing local law enforcement officers — and even discussions about killing members of the judicial branch of government — do not translate to conspiring to overthrow, or levy war against, the United States government,” she wrote, ordering that the Hutaree suspects be released on bail.

Since the federal case against the Hutaree rests entirely on what was said by the suspects, rather than anything specific that was done by them, it’s difficult to see what’s left of it.

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ConSigCor
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http://www.freep.com/article/20100507/N ... pt-in-jail

Nine members of an anti-government Lenawee County militia group walked into U.S. District Court in Detroit on Thursday expecting to shed their foot shackles, but instead they headed back to jail after a last-minute filing by the U.S. Attorney's Office.

By 4:30 p.m., defense lawyers for the Hutaree Christian militia group had filed their own motion, urging the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati to uphold a judge's decision to free the group on bond as they await trial.

The defense lawyers said U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts in Detroit had thoroughly reviewed the evidence against the members and concluded they were neither a danger to the community nor a flight risk and could be freed with more than two dozen bond restrictions, including house arrest, electronic monitoring and curfews.

Among other things, federal prosecutors and an FBI agent who was called to testify last week during detention hearings, "could not provide any differentiation between the conduct" of the nine indicted Hutaree members and the 25 unindicted members.

"If the government has no concern about the unindicted Hutaree members being at large in the community, then why does it allege, without support, an unsubstantiated concern" for the jailed members of the group, the defense wrote in the appellate filing.

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ConSigCor
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Fed court official seeks to correct prosecutors' claims in Hutaree case

Paul Egan / The Detroit News

Detroit-- In a development described as "unprecedented," a federal court official in Detroit filed an affidavit today with the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals, saying he wanted to correct claims made by prosecutors in the Hutaree militia case. "This affidavit is being submitted to correct the record, and any misunderstanding (Assistant U.S. Attorney) Mr. (Ronald) Waterstreet had about our conversation," Chief Pretrial Services Officer Alan Murray said in a court filing.

"Contrary to Mr. Waterstreet's belief, the court-ordered 'home detention' does not allow unmonitored release the entire day," Murray said in the affidavit. "The Global Positioning Satellites System allows a defendant to be monitored, at all times."

Murray also said his office has forms and procedures for assuring someone else takes possession of firearms belonging to third-party custodians assigned to the defendants, and his office "has a safe with the capacity to handle the third-party custodians' firearms, if necessary."


Michael Rataj, an attorney for Hutaree defendant Tina Stone, said Murray's action is unprecedented. "Obviously, Waterstreet has completely misrepresented what was discussed with pretrial services," he said.

A call to Waterstreet was not immediately returned.

U.S. District Judge Victoria A. Roberts, following two days of hearings, ruled that David Stone Sr. and eight alleged followers should be released to home confinement and electronic monitoring while awaiting trial on charges that include seditious conspiracy and attempted use of weapons of mass destruction.

Prosecutors filed an emergency motion with the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals, which on Thursday temporarily stayed the release orders.

Among the allegations against the Hutaree members is that they planned to kill a police officer and then use explosives to attack the scores of officers drawn to the slain officer's funeral.

Defense lawyers say the conversations secretly recorded by an FBI undercover agent were fantastic talk and the defendants had taken no substantive steps to carry out any such plans.

Murray was responding to filings Waterstreet made with the appeals court and the U.S. District Court in which he raised concerns about the bond conditions proposed by Roberts and whether officials from pretrial services could enact them in a way that would assure public safety.

"The type of electronic monitoring imposed is wholly inadequate to effectively supervise the defendants," Waterstreet said. "Moreover, there is no requirement that third-party custodians turn over any firearms they have to a law enforcement agency, and no means of verifying that they have removed firearms from the home."

In a filing with the appeals court today, Waterstreet argued Roberts made several errors in her bond rulings.

"The court erred in multiple respects," Waterstreet and Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Falvey said in a filing with the 6th Circuit.

Alleged errors the prosecutors cite include:

• Characterizing a speech David Stone Sr. planned to deliver at a militia meeting in Kentucky as "speaking of reclaiming America, not overthrowing the government." Prosecutors argued today Stone's speech, recorded by an undercover FBI agent, is about fighting the brotherhood -- a reference to local, state and federal law enforcement.

• Not giving sufficient weight to evidence the Hutaree members were trying to obtain explosives.

• Stating that the seriousness of the charges was the government's primary argument in favor of detention.

• Ruling that evidence of imminent lawless action against the U.S. government is necessary to support sedition.

• Refusing to allow testimony at the bond appeal hearings from an ATF agent that some of the guns seized from the Hutaree had barrels shorter than what's required by law.

A reply filed today by most of the defendants' attorneys said "all of these new arguments are meritless, mischaracterize Judge Roberts' findings, and are notably unaccompanied by any relevant authority."

The government is not permitted to raise new issues, such as those raised by Waterstreet, in a reply brief, the attorneys said.

It's not clear whether defense attorneys will be given time to file responses to the latest government filing.

pegan@detnews.com (313) 222-2069

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Breacher
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I think we need to go back to the program we started prior to the fakeout on pretrial release. Start with a form letter of sorts, sending copies to each of the Hutaree known jail addresses, along with some nominal funds to see if the jail commissary accounts are intact and deposits working.

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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ConSigCor
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Hutaree militia to remain behind bars pending appeal

Mike Wilkinson and Paul Egan / The Detroit News

A federal appellate court has ordered that accused members of the Hutaree militia group remain jailed pending a review of an appeal by prosecutors who challenged a federal judge's decision to allow them to be released on bond.

The U.S. Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals agreed this afternoon to continue its stay of Judge Victoria Roberts' decision to release the nine militia members on bond. The appellate court asked for a transcript of a hearing before Roberts' before it makes its final decision.

But the appellate court indicated it found fault in much of Roberts' reasoning when she agreed to release the nine accused members.

In secret recordings, Hutaree leader David Brian Stone Sr. and others espoused violence against police and others. In Roberts' ruling, the appellate court said, she appeared to consider whether their speech would be enough to convict the Hutaree, "rather than as bearing on the extent of actual danger posed by defendants." The appellate court said her reasoning "is not persuasively explained."

The court also said Roberts "fails to identify what evidence" the defendants supplied to warrant their release. The court appears to be leaning toward granting the appeal, saying that Roberts' "improperly viewed" some evidence, saying she focused on whether it was an indication of guilt "rather than the defendants' dangerousness."

The higher court also questions the role of the third-party custodians who would watch over each of the nine, pointing out that as family members they "would presumably have strong natural incentive not to cooperate with the very government that is prosecuting his or her loved one."

The appellate court called for an expedited review of the appeal.

William Swor, a Detroit attorney representing Stone, said he was in trial today in federal court in Flint and had not yet had a chance to read the opinion.

"It sounds to me like we're just going to have to continue working and advocating on behalf of our clients," Swor said.

"We're not quitting; we're not giving up. We're going to continue to try to get them released."

Stone and eight followers were arrested in a series of raids that started March 27 and were named in a grand jury indictment unsealed March 29.

They are charged with seditious conspiracy and attempted use of weapons of mass destruction.

Accused along with Stone are: his wife, Tina Stone, 44, and his son, Joshua Matthew Stone, 21, both of Clayton; and his stepson, David Brian Stone Jr., 19, of Adrian. Also accused are Joshua Clough, 28, of Blissfield; Michael Meeks, 40, of Manchester; Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Ind.; Kristopher Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; and Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio.

mwilkinson@detnews.com (313) 222-2563

Posts: 15962 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Texas Resistance
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..."The court also said Roberts "fails to identify what evidence" the defendants supplied to warrant their release..." What the hell Hutaree does not have to supply evidence to show their innocence the Feds have to prove beyond a doubt they are guilty. The First Amendment guarantees us the right of freedom of speech. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. They might as well call the Hutree politial prisoners, call Alaska New Siberia and ship them off to the gulag. Welcome to the United Soviet Socialist Sates of America.

I would like to hear the Fed's tapes. I'll bet it was the Fed infiltrator who was talking all the illegal B.S. and the Hutaree were just making a joke of it and laughing about it. I have always been told if anyone at a militia meeting talks crazy they are from club Fed and to kick them out.

[ 05-11-2010, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: Texas Resistance ]

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www.TexasMilitia.Info “Seek out and join a lawful Militia or form one in your area. If you wish to remain Free you will have to fight for it...because the traitors will give us no choice in the matter” William Cooper

Posts: 2562 | From: Angelina County, TX | Registered: Jun 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
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Defense seeks emergency appeal for Hutaree
Paul Egan / The Detroit News

Lawyers for the nine Hutaree militia defendants made an emergency request today for an "en banc" review of a U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals order keeping the defendants behind bars while prosecutors appeal an order to release them.

In an "en banc" review, all the judges of the 6th Circuit, not just a three-judge panel, consider an issue.

In a filing made on behalf of all the defendants, attorneys Richard Helfrick and Todd Shanker of the Federal Defender Office said a three-judge panel did not apply the proper standards or give proper deference to U.S. District Judge Victoria A. Roberts' decision to release the defendants, accused of plotting to kill police officers and spark an uprising against the government.

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The appeals extended a stay keeping the defendants in jail and asked for a transcript of a two-day hearing in front of Roberts to help it decide whether her release orders should be overturned. That decision is still pending, with lawyers asked to file briefs in the next two weeks.

Instead of determining whether Roberts abused her discretion, the appeals panel raised new issues that had not been argued by federal prosecutors in Detroit, the attorneys said in a court filing. The appeals court order, they said, toed "the line between impartiality and ad hoc advocacy" for the government.

The lawyers said they found "particularly troubling and erroneous" the appeals court concerns about having relatives of the defendants as "third-party custodians" who would keep an eye on the defendants and report any violations of the terms of their release.

The appeals panel said relatives would have a "strong natural incentive not to cooperate with the very government that is prosecuting his or her loved one."

But Helfrick and Shanker said that view is cynical.

"Family members and relatives comprise (the) vast majority of the third-party custodians for federally charged defendants who are released on bond," they argued.


.............

Posts: 15962 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Breacher
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You know, times like this is also when you want to consider manning up and sitting in jail rather than submit to those rules, although I hear the Detroit jails are pretty bad, and it might take strangling someone just to make your rep and not get fucked with, but exposing your family to the dilemma of betrayal vs going down with you is not that great of a position to put someone in.

I think from an honor standpoint, release with all of those conditions, and putting your family on exposure to more abuse from the "law" might not be such a good thing. You want to fight the government, you actually can do it right there inside a prison, and get your hands on some real dickheads who deserve to die anyway, so why kiss ass to get out and expose your family to more retaliation?

I mean, the response to the feds or locals putting a locked up militia guy's family under threat is fairly simple if a guy is really mentally prepared to go game on. Get your hands around some prison official's throat and go out fighting. It's not like they need to stand there and wonder "why" if someone in your family was forced into a heart attack, mental breakdown or just plain shot by some prick who wanted you to make false confessions. They will know who is responsible and why you did it, even if they are lying to the media, they often know the real deal anyway and word will get around their own kind why that shit went down the way it did.

[ 05-12-2010, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

Posts: 6705 | From: Western States | Registered: Sep 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
D308cat
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Just do not surrender in the first place, pretty simple.We all know most federal judges are bought and paid for by the GOV,and these judges selectively refuse to allow evidence that weighs in your favor,the entire system is rigged against you including jury selection, and it is obviously getting worse every day,it is no longer a jury of your piers,its a jury of strangers and don't forget they can now classify anyone a terrorist threat and detain you indefinitely without habeas corpus forget court.And Judges are now not only allowing planted evidence they are praising it,They despise the Constitution, The Founding Fathers and every thing that Makes this country what it was. Now FOX just broke a story that police are profiling veterans pulling them over and tagging there plates.Its getting to be time to travel with an MBR in your vehicle every where you go.If you enter the legal system now your just plain FU$$#D, might as well go down fighting and take out as many JBT Terrorist Traitor's as you can, (JUST MY OPINION) SEMPER FI

[ 05-13-2010, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: D308cat ]

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PSALM 144:01 Blessed be the LORD my Rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle---

Posts: 721 | From: High Desert | Registered: Nov 2009  | Report this post to a Moderator
ConSigCor
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Appeals Court: No emergency review to release Hutaree

Paul Egan / The Detroit News

A federal appeals court says an "en banc review" is not available for a three-judge panel's order to keep nine Hutaree militia defendants behind bars pending a government appeal of an order to release them.

The clerk of the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals removed from the docket an emergency request defense lawyers made Wednesday for a review of the panel's order by all the judges of the 6th Circuit. That's known as an "en banc" review.

But in a docket entry made late Wednesday, the court said that type of review is not available for an order extending the stay imposed on U.S. District Judge Victoria A. Roberts' release order for the Hutaree defendants. Instead, defense lawyers were instructed to ask for a rehearing of the issue by the same three-judge panel.


Richard Helfrick of the Federal Defender Office, who filed the emergency appeal request on behalf of all the defendants, said he thinks the clerk of the court is mistaken and has made a "hyper technical" reading of the court rules.

He said he mailed letters today to all 25 judges of the 6th Circuit asking that they carry out the en banc review.

The Hutaree members are accused of plotting to kill police officers to spark a general uprising against the government.

Alleged leader David Stone Sr., 45, and eight followers were arrested in a series of FBI raids that started March 27 and charged with seditious conspiracy and attempted use of weapons of mass destruction in a grand jury indictment unsealed March 29.

Accused along with Stone are: his wife, Tina Stone, 44 and his son, Joshua Matthew Stone, 21, both of Clayton; and his stepson, David Brian Stone Jr., 19, of Adrian. Also accused are Joshua Clough, 28, of Blissfield; Michael Meeks, 40, of Manchester; Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Ind.; Kristopher Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; and Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Donald Scheer and another magistrate judge in Indiana ordered all nine defendants held without bond to await trial. Roberts overturned Scheer and ordered the defendants released. But the 6th Circuit stayed Roberts' order until an appeal filed by federal prosecutors is heard.

Posts: 15962 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Breacher
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quote:
Originally posted by D308cat:
Just do not surrender in the first place, pretty simple.We all know most federal judges are bought and paid for by the GOV,and these judges selectively refuse to allow evidence that weighs in your favor,the entire system is rigged against you including jury selection, and it is obviously getting worse every day,it is no longer a jury of your piers,its a jury of strangers and don't forget they can now classify anyone a terrorist threat and detain you indefinitely without habeas corpus forget court.And Judges are now not only allowing planted evidence they are praising it,They despise the Constitution, The Founding Fathers and every thing that Makes this country what it was. Now FOX just broke a story that police are profiling veterans pulling them over and tagging there plates.Its getting to be time to travel with an MBR in your vehicle every where you go.If you enter the legal system now your just plain FU$$#D, might as well go down fighting and take out as many JBT Terrorist Traitor's as you can, (JUST MY OPINION) SEMPER FI

I am guessing that federal judges praising planted evidence is not a universal practice, but it is happening. I know of one case locally where an informant was proven wrong, the agents in the case had disregarded evidence that the guy was 40 miles away when the alleged crime was committed, and the jury still convicted the guy because they agreed with the prosecutor that the guy was just someone who deserved to get convicted of something. Part of the jury selection included a person put on the jury after having admitted that they had personal friends in the ATF.

I have read here and there about "site enhancement" and other issues with evidence manipulation, but I am not sure if anyone in the movement has come up with lists of cases and judges doing it. I know on the agent and prosecution side, they have judges and especially magistrates who will sign warrants for anything, even retroactively. I had never even heard of a retroactive warrant until 2008 and thought they were illegal, but apparently some judges do them to "fix" situations where agents felt they had no evidence to begin with and decided to act "quickly" on the basis of a tip but did not want to identify their informant or "investigative methods" (which often means illegal electronic surveillance).

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

Posts: 6705 | From: Western States | Registered: Sep 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
D308cat
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Bottom line is you can not trust any part of a system that refuses to play by the laws of the country and completely ignores the Constitution and Bill of Rights which is the foundation of all law in this country, they just make it up as they feel fit, Our system of law has completely lost all moral compass. My GOD these are supposed to be the brightest most educated people this country has to offer. I've read the founding fathers papers and you really must be stupid beyond measure not to know there intentions,what is being done to our Constitution is beyond criminal, its just plain treason, rise up AMERICA take back this country, prosecute the real criminals then return to the true Constitutional Republic. SEMPER FI

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PSALM 144:01 Blessed be the LORD my Rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle---

Posts: 721 | From: High Desert | Registered: Nov 2009  | Report this post to a Moderator
Breacher
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quote:
Originally posted by D308cat:
Bottom line is you can not trust any part of a system that refuses to play by the laws of the country and completely ignores the Constitution and Bill of Rights which is the foundation of all law in this country, they just make it up as they feel fit, Our system of law has completely lost all moral compass. My GOD these are supposed to be the brightest most educated people this country has to offer. I've read the founding fathers papers and you really must be stupid beyond measure not to know there intentions,what is being done to our Constitution is beyond criminal, its just plain treason, rise up AMERICA take back this country, prosecute the real criminals then return to the true Constitutional Republic. SEMPER FI

Unfortunately, you are dealing with a pretty smart and slick breed that has their own way of reading the constitution. I got that from one of the smug assholes here in Oregon who made a big point of showing how since the Judicial branch of government does not have to answer to anyone but their own courts, they can do whatever they feel authorized to do, to anyone they want to, especially once that someone has been given over to their custody (which he seemed to equate with lifetime ownership).

Granted, those people have some "constitutionally defensible" arguments, but that's where I just play the trump card of right and wrong because I really don't give a flying fuck what the paper says when they kill children, nursing mothers, and people just trying to live their own lives with some freedom and dignity.

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

Posts: 6705 | From: Western States | Registered: Sep 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
ConSigCor
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Breacher, remember Charlie's case?

When the feds decided they wanted to shut him up they dug into his past. He had one misdemeanor charge when he was a teenager. His record was supposed to be expunged when he turned 21.

Years later, Charlie applied for and was granted a concealed carry permit after going through the required background check.

Now, the feds "discovered" that the original misdemeanor, if committed under today's law, could be a felony; so they went back to the original 1968 charge...upgraded his record to a felony offense and busted him for being a felon in possession of a firearm.

According to the ferral judge, it did not matter that it was a misdemeanor when Charlie did the original deed. Since it's a felony now, the law is retroactive. When his attorney objected on constitutional grounds he was told to shut up.

[ 05-14-2010, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: ConSigCor ]

Posts: 15962 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Total Resistance
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So much for no ex-post-facto laws.

So much for any law unless it can be used against citizens or twisted to allow government to get away with murder.

How many "first shots" have been fired?

"The only thing worse than law-breakers are law makers" Wes Huntley

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Rule #1 - You do not publically bad mouth a fellow patriot.

"Being innocent is simply not enough for the government," Denise Simon

Posts: 1115 | From: Twilight Zone | Registered: Dec 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
ConSigCor
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Feds add more gun charges in Hutaree militia case

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/0...arges_in_h.html

By The Associated Press
June 02, 2010, 3:50PM
Federal prosecutors have filed more charges against members of the Hutaree militia who are accused of conspiring to wage war against the United States.

The indictment returned today mostly adds new weapons charges against members of the Hutaree, a southern Michigan-based group that is described as anti-government. Nine people were charged in March.

The government alleges that militia members planned to kill a police officer and then attack law enforcers who attend the funeral. The nine have pleaded not guilty, and defense lawyers say they only engaged in stupid, hateful talk.

Many of the new gun charges involve Hutaree leader David Stone, his son, Joshua Stone, both of Lenawee County, Michigan, and Joshua Clough (CLUFF) of Blissfield, Michigan.

And here is another article.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6516...pe=domesticNews

More weapons charges filed against militia group
Wed, Jun 2 2010

By James B. Kelleher

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Prosecutors on Wednesday brought new charges against members of midwestern militia group accused of plotting to kill police as part of a wider war against the U.S. government.

The new 15-count indictment adds several weapons-related charges not contained in the previous indictment against the militia group.

All nine defendants have pleaded not guilty to the original charges and the judge hearing the case has ordered them freed on bond, saying prosecutors failed to show they posed a real threat.

The indictment originally unsealed in late March accused the nine, members of a midwestern militia group called the Hutaree, of planning to kill a police officer in Michigan and then ambush the funeral procession using explosives.

The new indictment adds 10 weapons charges including possession of machineguns and unregistered rifles and use of firearms during a violent crime.

According to the new indictment federal agents seized from defendants' homes in March machineguns, unregistered short-barreled rifles and over 148,000 rounds of ammunition, as well as "a variety of explosives and related items capable of being readily assembled to build several types of destructive devices."

The original federal grand jury indictment charged the defendants with seditious conspiracy, attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence.

But in a blistering attack on the prosecutors' seditious conspiracy case in early May, U.S. District Court Judge Victoria Roberts said prosecutors had failed to persuade her the defendants were a danger to the community.

While they may have engaged in "offensive and hate-filled speech," it was not at all clear that they had conspired to break any laws, Roberts wrote.

"Discussions about killing local law enforcement officers -- and even discussions about killing members of the Judicial Branch of Government -- do not translate to conspiring to overthrow, or levy war against, the United States Government," she wrote in a 36-page opinion.

The group's website says the term Hutaree means "Christian warrior" and says the group was "preparing for the end time battles to keep the testimony of Jesus Christ alive." However, prosecutors downplayed the religious elements of the group.

Posts: 15962 | From: A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
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