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» A Well Regulated Militia » Weaponry » Ammunition » 9mm NATO

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Author Topic: 9mm NATO
Rudy
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While at Cabela's last month I was shopping for some 9mm for my Glock. I found some Winchester white box stuff marked 9mm NATO.

I found it interesting that all other brands were marked 9mm LUGER. Upon closer examination there was a warning label on the box stating that it was loaded to 10% higher pressure than 9mm Luger. I picked up 3 boxes.

I've always heard that US ammo was loaded to lower power levels due to the substandard 9mm pistols made here in the US. Product liability and lawyers have their hands in the firearms industries.

Stories were confirmed by the local class III dealer.

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Rudy out
"Once the pin is pulled, Mr. Handgrenade is no longer our friend."

Posts: 2113 | From: 43BN-37FF | Registered: Feb 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Pericles
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9mm NATO just means the round meets the NATO STANAG.

124 gr. FMJ loaded to a pressure of 36,550 psi. and I think most 9mm is about 35,000 psi.

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"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson

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Posts: 951 | From: TX - DAL | Registered: Sep 2008  | Report this post to a Moderator
OLM-Medic
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I don't think there is much difference in effectiveness of 9mm ammo unless its a good HP brand.

I've been using CCI Blazer for practice and for SHTF stockpile (once I run out of quality HP's). Not sure how good it is but I can't imagine it being much different.

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"Remember that your adversary's desire to live is usually more powerful than whatever ammunition your are carrying in your firearms. Plan accordingly." -tire iron

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Kimber_45
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From what I understand NATO 9mm was loaded hotter to be reliable in Sub guns but able to be used in pistols too.
Posts: 154 | From: Mississippi | Registered: Apr 2009  | Report this post to a Moderator
Rudy
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quote:
Originally posted by Kimber_45:
From what I understand NATO 9mm was loaded hotter to be reliable in Sub guns but able to be used in pistols too.

That is what was confirmed to me also.

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Rudy out
"Once the pin is pulled, Mr. Handgrenade is no longer our friend."

Posts: 2113 | From: 43BN-37FF | Registered: Feb 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Texas Resistance
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Unless it is a good hollow point 9mm does not have much stopping ability. A .45 has enough weight to have good fight stopping ability even in FMJ.

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www.TexasMilitia.Info “Seek out and join a lawful Militia or form one in your area. If you wish to remain Free you will have to fight for it...because the traitors will give us no choice in the matter” William Cooper

Posts: 2562 | From: Angelina County, TX | Registered: Jun 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
Breacher
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Yes, 9mm Luger is a lower powered loading which is intended to be safe with older 9mm "war trophy" pistols and is actually the old original German standard. The Walther P38/P1 cannot handle a steady diet of 9mm NATO. Old Lugers will break after only a few magazines of 9mm NATO.

The 9mm NATO is a hotter than "average" load, more like a +P, however the true subgun ammo fielded by the Brits for their Sterlings and the Israelis for the Uzis is a much hotter round, more like +P++ but ran into issues with damaging MP5s so the NATO standard was downgraded at some point in the late 1980s.

The higher velocities do a lot for flatter trajectories, more penetration and faster bullet travel but not a whole lot for stopping power.

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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sharpstick
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quote:
Originally posted by Texas Resistance:
Unless it is a good hollow point 9mm does not have much stopping ability. A .45 has enough weight to have good fight stopping ability even in FMJ.

All handgun rounds suck, they are poor performers compared to most any rifle round. Shot placement and rounds on Target is the only way to increase the effectiveness of the poor performing handgun rounds. The slight difference in 9mm 40s&w and 45acp is not enough to alter the way I use them and not enough to say one is better or worse when delivered in volume.
Posts: 792 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Feb 2005  | Report this post to a Moderator
Breacher
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The other way that people compensate for the lack of bullet weight in the 9mm is to train heavily in the double tap, although that is not a guaranteed thing either. The Brits seem quite happy with their use of the 9mm along with tactics geared toward making their double taps so rapid that they expect the bullets to hit at "about" the same time.

Note, they might be on to something since most municipal firing ranges outright forbid target shooters from practicing true double tap techniques. I was almost kicked off a range in the Sacramento area for what they were calling "rapid fire". Basically anything that looked too tactical in the eyes of the cop groupie rangemaster was considered forbidden.

Now if you practice with a .40 or .45 under those circumstances, you can sort of get by since those rounds don't really need a double tap to be fully effective (although people will argue that on the .40). Adjusting your training to rapid target acquisition with single shot placement with a .45 is doable and not entirely a loser proposition at public supervised ranges. The thing about using 9mm as your tactical handgun is that necessity of learning the double tap, and the fact that anyone within earshot will figure out you are not just a bunch of rednecks out slob shooting but are actually doing some tactical training.

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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OLM-Medic
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quote:
Originally posted by Breacher:
The other way that people compensate for the lack of bullet weight in the 9mm is to train heavily in the double tap, although that is not a guaranteed thing either. The Brits seem quite happy with their use of the 9mm along with tactics geared toward making their double taps so rapid that they expect the bullets to hit at "about" the same time.

Note, they might be on to something since most municipal firing ranges outright forbid target shooters from practicing true double tap techniques. I was almost kicked off a range in the Sacramento area for what they were calling "rapid fire". Basically anything that looked too tactical in the eyes of the cop groupie rangemaster was considered forbidden.

Now if you practice with a .40 or .45 under those circumstances, you can sort of get by since those rounds don't really need a double tap to be fully effective (although people will argue that on the .40). Adjusting your training to rapid target acquisition with single shot placement with a .45 is doable and not entirely a loser proposition at public supervised ranges. The thing about using 9mm as your tactical handgun is that necessity of learning the double tap, and the fact that anyone within earshot will figure out you are not just a bunch of rednecks out slob shooting but are actually doing some tactical training.

I don't really agree with that. Whatever the caliber, one shot isn't going to be something you want to rely on. If the target is armed, even a fatal shot has a good chance of still leaving them with enough time to shoot back. The double tap is something I don't really agree with either, since now they teach shooting until they are down.

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"Remember that your adversary's desire to live is usually more powerful than whatever ammunition your are carrying in your firearms. Plan accordingly." -tire iron

Posts: 731 | From: Maryland | Registered: Aug 2009  | Report this post to a Moderator
Texas Resistance
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One hit with a 9mm FMJ is not going to end the fight nearly as often as one hit with a 9mm HP and a lot less often than a .45 acp FMJ. I keep my .45 loaded with Remington Golden Saber 185 gr. +P rounds that have a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps.

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www.TexasMilitia.Info “Seek out and join a lawful Militia or form one in your area. If you wish to remain Free you will have to fight for it...because the traitors will give us no choice in the matter” William Cooper

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OLM-Medic
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quote:
Originally posted by Texas Resistance:
One hit with a 9mm FMJ is not going to end the fight nearly as often as one hit with a 9mm HP and a lot less often than a .45 acp FMJ. I keep my .45 loaded with Remington Golden Saber 185 gr. +P rounds that have a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps.

IMO none of them will. They [guns, bullets, etc] are just hole-punchers and some are marginally bigger than others. Someone could get hit with any big caliber in the vitals and have enough energy left to shoot back before they die.

You are right about the premium ammo. I just don't think you can rely on any one round stopping a target.

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"Remember that your adversary's desire to live is usually more powerful than whatever ammunition your are carrying in your firearms. Plan accordingly." -tire iron

Posts: 731 | From: Maryland | Registered: Aug 2009  | Report this post to a Moderator
Rudy
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quote:
Originally posted by Texas Resistance:
One hit with a 9mm FMJ is not going to end the fight nearly as often as one hit with a 9mm HP and a lot less often than a .45 acp FMJ. I keep my .45 loaded with Remington Golden Saber 185 gr. +P rounds that have a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps.

I too prefer to carry an M1911. I have always favored the .45ACP.

It is also my firm beliefe that a hit from a 9mm no matter what type of bullet is better than a miss with a .45.

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Rudy out
"Once the pin is pulled, Mr. Handgrenade is no longer our friend."

Posts: 2113 | From: 43BN-37FF | Registered: Feb 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
OLM-Medic
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If I went with .45 I think it would be a Glock. 13 rounds of .45 is not bad at all compared to the 7 or 8 round capacity in most other .45 handguns.

No matter what gun I'm dumping multiple rounds into the target until its no longer able to attack.

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"Remember that your adversary's desire to live is usually more powerful than whatever ammunition your are carrying in your firearms. Plan accordingly." -tire iron

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Breacher
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Ten years ago the standard militia sidearm was going to be the Glock 9mm for a lot of reasons, not the least of which standardizing ammo among groups and the ability to use captured ammo. The reality we ended up with was a greater distribution of 1911 variants doe to maintaining a smaller core of more highly skilled guys who were using competition shooting as their training and finding a lot of advantages to using the .45, and then a lot of advantages on the 1911 platform (faster lock time, positive safety, fast mag changes). Now, we practically forget about talking handgun standardization.

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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