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Author Topic: 12ga
5.56
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Went to knob creek awhile back. Got a ammo can of 105MM take down flechetes. Been sitting here gatheing dust. I goi motivated today and ordered shot wads that will take them 27mm focci hulls. Going to use 39gr of longshot with 40 flechetes per load. Total wieght of payload is only 288grs.

going to work the load up untill we get FPS at about 1600. I figure it is time to hone the swords and knives and polish the shields. Get the critter control products ready along with the scythe to cut down the wheat and separate the chafe.

5.56

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Rudy
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Want to sell some of those flettchets?

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Rudy out
"Once the pin is pulled, Mr. Handgrenade is no longer our friend."

Posts: 2113 | From: 43BN-37FF | Registered: Feb 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
5.56
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I am still working out the kinks for the load. I am wanting to be able to shoot them in autoloaders. Going to the 4th powder now. Was almost there with the last test batch today. The 12ga beehive rds at 40 feet were blowing through a 2x4 leaning up against the tree. Just at the verge of kicking the empty out, but need slower powder that will not boost chamber pressure to where it does not drop before the case tries to extract.

5.56

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Sisu
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Please help me understand what the point is. I find that the exotic do not perform... I do find the wax and shot "slugs" interesting though.

I'm not about to knock something I have never played with...

Help me "get it"

[Smile]

Posts: 718 | From: Central Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2010  | Report this post to a Moderator
Folcwine01
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Well, Sisu, the shotgun fletchlet loads are traditionally bush loads that were developed to shred through jungle under brush. Pretty effectively too... In soft flesh and foliage, the needle sized darts pass through with the tailfins tearing the heck out of things. On hard targets, say bone and wood, they deliver a nasty impact that shatters the material and/or gets stuck. Against heavy armor, level 3 plates, steel panels, etc, they are rather ineffective. The real advantage of the fletchlet loads is the shear number of deep penetrating projectiles. Think of of bird shot on steroids and with a pension for smack downs, mixed with an evil doctor with way to many needles on hand.

Thats if hes loading up the good ol' jungle brush-cutter loads.

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Folcwine

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5.56
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Folks,

Had to revamp the process. I could not attain the pressure needed to work the auto's. So here is what did work.

Ballistic international wad with a 1 1/2" deep shot cup. A layer of number 4 buck on the bottom to get more weight, a steel fender washer on top of it and 28 fletchlet on top of the steel washer.

5.56

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Lord Vader
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The flechette loads that are available at this site are supposed to be a lot better performing then loads using Mil Surplus flechettes. The flechettes themselves are made a lot better and unlike the Military ones will not bend in use.

http://www.antipersonnel.net/sdllc/005.html

I used to have web gear made by their FMCO division and it was of good quality but unfortunately that part of the business is for sale not sure about the Flechette part. Anyway when I called about the Vest I asked about their flechettes and I was told that they would go through soft body armor and the person wearing it like a hot knife through butter.

So as I see it they are best for defeating body armor. But are not as good for targets not wearing armor since they are sharply pointed they do not have the same stopping power as regular buckshot.

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VINCE AUT MORIRE (Conquer or Die)

Posts: 3823 | From: Trapped in Rhode Island | Registered: Oct 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Folcwine01
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And the catch on armor is shot placement, soft armor gets penetrated, heavy armor will stop them.

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Folcwine

Posts: 378 | From: Lewis County, WA | Registered: Aug 2009  | Report this post to a Moderator
OLM-Medic
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I don't see much of a benefit in flechettes. From what I have researched in the past it seems that they will not penetrate enough to reliably hit vital organs.

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"Remember that your adversary's desire to live is usually more powerful than whatever ammunition your are carrying in your firearms. Plan accordingly." -tire iron

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tire iron
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Flechettes that come from an Arty round are worlds apart from Flechettes that come from a shotgun.

Artillary flechettes weigh 250 grains and start at near 4,000 feet per second.

Flechettes that come out of a shotgun wiegh on average 10 grains and start at almost half what the Arty flechettes start with regards to feet per second.

The effect downrange is clear and dramatic. The flechettes that wiegh more than a .45 ball round and scream at 4,000 fps can do some serious damage.

The flechettes that come out of a shotgun are much, much less impressive.

ANY rifle that shoots 5.56 is MUCH more effective than a shotgun shooting flechettes.

In other words I would take a Ruger Mini-14 over a shotgun with flechettes. (And those that have read my stuff over the years know that I don't even suggest one possess a Mini-14.)

cheers

tire iron

--------------------
An amateur practices something until he gets it right - a pro practices something until he can't do it wrong.
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5.56
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Not sure where you got the info on the weight of the arty flechettes. The ones I have come from demilled 105 and 155 rds. They are in a cluster like a roll. You dis-assemble the rolls. Each one weighes about 8 grains each when weighed on lab scales.

I feel pretty comfortable grabbing the 1100 in the bedromm with these loads. Would I want to use it for other than CQC.....NO. But inside or around the perimiter at night.....I would not hesitate.

Nor would I grab a .223/5.56 for long range when a .308 or a .50 BMG are available. Like all good carpenters...........They NEVER have only one hammer in the tool box. They have many, each for a specific application.

5.56

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safetalker
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quote:
I don't see much of a benefit in flechettes. From what I have researched in the past it seems that they will not penetrate enough to reliably hit vital organs.
I sat with a guy in Saigon who made his own loads. He told me that it was his job on the Squad to take point with his 12 Ga. So he loaded it in a menu.
I ask what he meant he explained this way.
Holding up a handful of small balls (he used fishing weights clipped onto small metal leader wire. Each was about 1 1/2" long ball to ball and bent double in the middle) He called it a brush cleaner.
His menu was 1 round of rocksalt (in case the noise is two kids screwing), 1 round of bird Shot, then a Round of OO. Then his cleaner.
He explained that you have never been on point till you fire a Shotgun into a thicket and have a 250 lb Tiger jump out. He says the whole squad put every round in the group into the thing before it lay down.
I made a couple in Thailand and they took the guts out of a 4" tree.
I keep one in the butt clip just incase.

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SBL
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Best to just keep things simple and stick with the tried and true buckshot. If your enemy is likely to be wearing body armor, then it would likely be appropriate to alternately load it with slugs.
For example, an 8-shot mag tube could be loaded as such: buck, slug, buck, slug, buck, slug, buck, slug.

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On equipment: You get what you inspect, not what you expect.
On training: Our drills are bloodless battles so that our battles are bloody drills.
On tactics: Cheating just means you're serious about winning.

Posts: 4316 | From: Central Virginia; VIM | Registered: Jan 2008  | Report this post to a Moderator
Sisu
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Same with a .357, Hollow point +p .38, penetrating .357 etc, etc
Posts: 718 | From: Central Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2010  | Report this post to a Moderator
Hailstorm
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I loaded some fletchlets last month and shot them with a buddy at all different kinds of stuff, phone books, 2x4's and other stuff.
Final verdict was that they fly crazy "sideways" and penetration was less than impressive. I'll just stick with tried and true buck shot with slugs as an alternative.

--------------------
Sic Semper Tyrannis

Posts: 29 | From: Central VA, VIM. | Registered: Mar 2013  | Report this post to a Moderator
Sisu
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I'm sure they are much more impressive used as shrapnel rather than a projectile.
Posts: 718 | From: Central Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2010  | Report this post to a Moderator
Gunfixr
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Many years ago, working in an industrial machine shop, we used to cut bearings off of paper rollers for a paper mill. The bearings themselves were about .625" in diameter, and conical, about 1" long.
I collected up quite a few of them, but never did anything with them.
Being bearings, they are very hard steel.
Now might be a good time to find them, and put them to use.

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Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers.
Liberty is a Man-of-War, and we are all crew.

Glock Advanced Armourer
Gunsmith Unique Armament Creations
07/SOT

MOLON LABE

Posts: 248 | From: VA | Registered: Jan 2008  | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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