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» A Well Regulated Militia » Weaponry » Ammunition » Rifle mag orientation in pouches

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Author Topic: Rifle mag orientation in pouches
SBL
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I've seen rifle mag pouches (I usually call them holsters, since they're made with kydex usually) that attach to your stiff civilian belt in both a 'bullets forward' design and a 'bullets rearward' design.

Yes, I'm familiar with the brass to the grass thing. My question here is which orientation; bullets forward or rearward, is preferred AND WHY. "Cause we always did it that way"are the words of a fool. I want real reasoning here, not superstitions or traditions. Mechanics, ergonomics and physics only.

Thanks in advance.

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On equipment: You get what you inspect, not what you expect.
On training: Our drills are bloodless battles so that our battles are bloody drills.
On tactics: Cheating just means you're serious about winning.

Posts: 4286 | From: Central Virginia; VIM | Registered: Jan 2008  | Report this post to a Moderator
Breacher
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Depends on the situation. For competition is is usually brass down, mag in a natural position to bring it to the magwell with minimal adjustment, which varies a little depending on where it is on your gear, since some mags are strong side, some are cross draw.

On military situations, it varies, but usually, brass up because that makes it easier and faster for supervisors to check gear and mag pouches. Patrol leaders and range control must know whether or not mags are loaded, and what they are loaded with. We need mags right side up in order to see that, and I won't take anybody's word for jack shit. I physically check each mag as the platoon passes by, and I have two seconds per troop to do that check. We are not screwing around with pulling mags out of pouches for that. We flip open the pouches and look at the tops of the mags.

For example, someone going from the live fire area to the force on force training area, we have to physically guarantee no live ammo in the mags, only blanks.

I shit you not, on a training range in the Army National Guard, we had a few PFCs from a support unit filling out the engineer squad, and I noticed how this one fiddled with his rifle constantly in a "firefight" with the MILES gear. He was racking and firing his rifle, said he got a lot of misfires. Then tapping the MILES device to make it flash. I checked his mags for the "bad ammo". Turned out he had been loading mags from the ammo box that had fired brass. Someone told him that brass was reloadable, so he reloaded the fired blank brass into his mags...

So, being Corporal tactical dickhead who was "taking shit too seriously" I ordered the rest of the squad to download mags into their helmets. Only about half obeyed while the other half were looking to appeal up the chain of command because they didn't want to do it...that would of course mean taking matters to the chubby deputy acting as the platoon Sgt. He was busy elsewhere, doing who knows what, as long as it wasn't something too demanding and would make himself look good to the commander...

At the next station, the infantry SSGT in charge orders mags to get downloaded again because he "heard from a reliable source" that some psycho former Marine was probably going to try and sneak live ammo onto the MOUT training area. So we all download mags into our helmets again, no exceptions, while we hear his story about being a trainer for the state police SWAT on an occasion when some deputy plugged his buddy in center mass in the chest with 9mm ball ammo when he did a rapid mag change from his vest when everyone else was using old style simmunition. Bottom line, my supervisory mag check for live blanks was also by default the check for hard live ammo anyway, and it didn't go from dumb idea to good idea just because of me, it was a good idea because it was the right thing to do. Making us do it over and over again was the goofy part. I figured the guy was bullshitting me but saw validity in the concept, but years later I actually found a reference to the incident online. Reported as a training accident where a Clackamas county SWAT deputy was killed at that training site. Not exactly the elite of the SWAT world, but I heard they hated me so bad that when the Feds set me up to get busted, they didn't want it going down in that jurisdiction because half the SWAT people there wanted me dead.

How that deputy was killed was pure negligence on several levels, but as I gloated at the time, it was an incident among full time professionals...Yeah, I did talk shit. When someone decides to challenge my sanity in the eyes of the public and then fatally fucks up like that, I rub it in.

Word of my attitude toward the deputies spread far and wide at that point. Mainly because their authority to exempt themselves from safety conserns bit them in their ass and I never made the wrong decisions in supervising my troops training, Their actions varied, and so did their results.

So if it's not a shooting match or your own personal home defense combat load out, feed lip areas go visible for administrative purposes.

Whatever you do, don't make me look bad by fucking up and having an accident from mixing wrong mags or wrong ammo, and your best way to avoid those problems is to go mags upright in pouches so you can see what's there, like I said, unless it's competition or personal space. You can flip shit around at your first patrol stop if it's all out in a real world environment.

[ 02-18-2017, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

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Posts: 6705 | From: Western States | Registered: Sep 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
SBL
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That's an interesting story. You Army guys definitely did things differently than us Marines.

The question was regarding the front-rear orientation of the mag. Should the bullets be forward with the primer to the rear, or should it be the other way around?

Most folks are carrying their pistol mags on the non-dominant side in a bullets forward configuration. Should the same logic follow with the rifle mag? Or is there an ergonomic reason to do it otherwise?

--------------------
On equipment: You get what you inspect, not what you expect.
On training: Our drills are bloodless battles so that our battles are bloody drills.
On tactics: Cheating just means you're serious about winning.

Posts: 4286 | From: Central Virginia; VIM | Registered: Jan 2008  | Report this post to a Moderator
The Answer
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I go bullets facing forward.

I have an AK and I'm right handed.

So I pull the trigger and hear click instead of bang.

I hold the rifle up with my right hand while my left hand drops the empty mag.

I reach towards the pocket with my left hand and grab the mag with my fingers facing the top of the mag (bullets down so bottom of the pocket).

Then after I pull out the mag, I'm holding it in my left hand bullets up and forward. So it's perfectly ready to go into my ghetto blaster and assault various large fruits.

Mag goes in the rifle and I tilt it to the side to do that slick left handed underneath charging.

I don't know a way to even have it bullets down and rearward without seriously rotating your wrist.

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Posts: 569 | From: Somewhere in these blue ridged mountains | Registered: Apr 2009  | Report this post to a Moderator
Breacher
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quote:
Originally posted by SBL:
That's an interesting story. You Army guys definitely did things differently than us Marines.

The question was regarding the front-rear orientation of the mag. Should the bullets be forward with the primer to the rear, or should it be the other way around?

Most folks are carrying their pistol mags on the non-dominant side in a bullets forward configuration. Should the same logic follow with the rifle mag? Or is there an ergonomic reason to do it otherwise?

There is a lot of variables, like the design and placement of the pouches. Competition rigs almost always do it that way. Upside down bullets forward is most common.

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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Rudy
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My mag pouches: Mags are upside down, bullets away from the body.

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Rudy out
"Once the pin is pulled, Mr. Handgrenade is no longer our friend."

Posts: 2105 | From: 43BN-37FF | Registered: Feb 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
5.56
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Bullets down, If in front pouch bullets facing left. If left side pouch bullets facing rear.

The reason: less likely for anything to filter into the mags.
Facing in those directions with the bullets insures that when I grab the mag with my thumb down and pull the mag and straighten my wrist with the thumb up the mag is orientated correctly.

Black electrical tape ID. No tape = 175 GR sierra match king BTHP, One band of tape equals tracer ammunition, 2 bands of tape = Armor piercing incendiary ammunition. Darkness or daylight, by touch I can tell which mag I am looking for.

This is what works for me. Others use what suits them best.

Be afraid of the dark, the Boogey man is real and is out there in the darkness. Use 3rd Gen. NV and light him up and teach him why he was afraid of the dark as a child!

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Pericles
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Bullets forward and brass down - I grab the mag on its bottom, which is facing up in the pouch, and twist the mag so it is now right side (brass) up rounds pointed in the direction of loading into the weapon.

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"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson

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Posts: 951 | From: TX - DAL | Registered: Sep 2008  | Report this post to a Moderator
Texas Resistance
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OK here are some mechanics, ergonomics and physics for you SBL.

I credit this method to Chuck Taylor, Vietnam Combat Vet, former Chief Instructor at Jeff Cooper's Gunsite Academy, and now Chief Instructor and owner of American Small Arms Academy. http://www.chucktayloramericansmallarmsacademy.com
Of course keep your magazines upside down to keep the dirt out of them and flip them upright as you grab them. With the Vietnam era ALICE gear pouches you keep the bullets towards your body with the 3 mags per pouch perpendicular to you body. That way the curve of 30 round AR mags match the curve of your body and they ride better. With any kind of chest pouch you keep the mags parallel to you chest and the bullets pointing towards your trigger finger. When you grab a mag always grab it with your index finger pointing in the same direction as the bullets and always point your index finger down range towards the enemy and bring the mag to the mag well and insert it. With this standard operating procedure you can load your mags in your rifle without having to look at them and without taking your eyes off the enemy.

There are documented incidents of men dying in the Iraq War because they were shot while looking at and turning their magazine around to insert it.

I say never wear more then one layer of magazines so you will not be plowing dirt if you have to low crawl and if your pouches are moveable keep them around to you sides. If you wear an LBV-88 tighten the paracords on the sides and let the straps in the front out to shift the pouches to the sides.

Don't copy something because it looks tacti-cool like they do in Iraq. If we have to fight here it will not be a jump out of you vehicle urban/desert war like in Iraq. Many places in the USA are heavily wooded and are more jungle (Vietnam like) than desert like. Wearing a baseball cap with a flag on it to look like a blackwater operator is stupid. A baseball type cap accentuates your profile so the enemy can spot you quicker. Instead wear an irregular shaped floppy boonie hat.

[ 03-28-2017, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Texas Resistance ]

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www.TexasMilitia.Info “Seek out and join a lawful Militia or form one in your area. If you wish to remain Free you will have to fight for it...because the traitors will give us no choice in the matter” William Cooper

Posts: 2560 | From: Angelina County, TX | Registered: Jun 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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