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» A Well Regulated Militia » Militia Operations » Patriot Defense Fund » JULY4PATRIOT ARRESTED (Page 4)

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Author Topic: JULY4PATRIOT ARRESTED
Stalker
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quote:
Originally posted by Breacher:
Whoa you mean Travis? I thought he was the southern California guy.

The main reason those people became spokesmen for the movement on Russia Today is the rest of us were either refusing interviews, never knew Dyer before his arrest, or never even heard of Russia Today prior to them doing some stories about him.

Can you post a link of the youtube RT stuff with travis?

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"Just name any Hero and I'll prove he's a Bum" - Greg "Pappy" Boyington VMF 214

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Texas Resistance
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I disagree Breacher Sir, the reason most of us do not talk to any news media and especially the Russian Communist News Media is because we know they are enemies of the patriot/militia movement.

No militiaman should ever wear a ski-mask because wearing ski-masks makes it looks like we are terrorists and we sure as hell are not terrorists.

These Sir, are the terrorists.

 -

Remember their attack on a church in Waco?
See: http://www.wizardsofaz.com/waco/picturethis.html

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www.TexasMilitia.Info “Seek out and join a lawful Militia or form one in your area. If you wish to remain Free you will have to fight for it...because the traitors will give us no choice in the matter” William Cooper

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Breacher
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quote:
Originally posted by Stalker:
quote:
Originally posted by Breacher:
Whoa you mean Travis? I thought he was the southern California guy.

The main reason those people became spokesmen for the movement on Russia Today is the rest of us were either refusing interviews, never knew Dyer before his arrest, or never even heard of Russia Today prior to them doing some stories about him.

Can you post a link of the youtube RT stuff with travis?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldzEnKx5qKM&feature=channel

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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Breacher
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quote:
Originally posted by Texas Resistance:
I disagree Breacher Sir, the reason most of us do not talk to any news media and especially the Russian Communist News Media is because we know they are enemies of the patriot/militia movement.

No militiaman should ever wear a ski-mask because wearing ski-masks makes it looks like we are terrorists and we sure as hell are not terrorists.

These Sir, are the terrorists.

 -

Remember their attack on a church in Waco?
See: http://www.wizardsofaz.com/waco/picturethis.html

Please dust off your copy of FM 31-21 or one of the updates.

Here is another relevant book

http://www.soc.mil/swcs/swmag/Assets/ARSOF%20Reference%20Publications/ARSOF%20Reference%20Publications/Historical/FM%2031-20%2065.pdf

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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Texas Resistance
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OK I can't find anywhere in Fm 31-21 - Guerrilla Warfare and Special Forces Operations where it says we should collaborate with the Communists or wear ski-masks to look like terrorists.

In his interview with the commie rats Travis did not even say it was not a real M203 grenade launcher Sgt. Dyer had.

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www.TexasMilitia.Info “Seek out and join a lawful Militia or form one in your area. If you wish to remain Free you will have to fight for it...because the traitors will give us no choice in the matter” William Cooper

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ConSigCor
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There are times when a face mask or other item used to secure ones identity are absolutely appropriate.

And in those instances, it doesn't make a damn what other people think.

The original federal government in Britain labeled the militia of 230 years ago radical extremists and accused them of being guilty of terrorism and sedition. The rebel militia didn't give a damn what their enemy thought and neither should we.

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Texas Resistance
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We need to keep from looking like terrorists to keep as much of the general population on our side as we can.

John Trochman, JJ Johnson, and Mark Koernke all wore suits & ties, did not use profanity, or have rifles in the background when they had to speak to the news media.

Travis could have just phoned in rather than wear a mask and he could have kept from using profanity unless was trying to make the militia look like terrorists.

All militiamen would be wise to take the higher moral ground of working to restore and return to a literal interpretation of the United States Constitution as the founding fathers intended with a strong emphasis on the bill of rights, states rights, and a limited federal government like Mark Koernke advises before they call us all gangs and terrorists and try to make militias illegal.

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www.TexasMilitia.Info “Seek out and join a lawful Militia or form one in your area. If you wish to remain Free you will have to fight for it...because the traitors will give us no choice in the matter” William Cooper

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SBL
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+1 TR.

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On equipment: You get what you inspect, not what you expect.
On training: Our drills are bloodless battles so that our battles are bloody drills.
On tactics: Cheating just means you're serious about winning.

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ConSigCor
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Militia men should not be talking to the media in the first place.

According to a recent discussion with a prosecuting attorney...

The militia can portray itself as the kindlier, gentler, warm and fuzzy boy scouts in camo all they want; law enforcement will still consider them all to be nothing more than terrorists and the media will portray them as such.

None of the modern militia movement is considered to be "legitimate" by the authorities. By law, only militias "authorized" or officially recognized by the state are considered legal. All of our groups are considered to be private paramilitary groups. Almost every state has laws on the books outlawing them. Those laws are just rarely enforced.

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Breacher
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There is one big difference between the militia/pattriot types and the "real" terrorists.

Real terrorists get some levels of respect when they are arrested. When is the last time a media outlet did a serious news piece accusing Osama of being a child molester?

The militia movement as a whole is diserespected and getting nowhere. Making it easy to be identified is operational suicide. Look at how gossib boy and his faggot corps infiltrated half the outfits in Oklahoma and are plastering pictures of them all over the net.

As for making public announcements and talking to the media, it is done by every single international group out there, so why the hell would anyone here condemn Travis for talking to Russia Today?!? Especially when most of the folks here were doing next to nothing to get J4P out of jail.

Both John and Mark have done jail time in the last decade, JJ Johnson is not combat effective and has not been for a very long time. He is effective as a public relations guy (uh, talking to the media), and educational stuff to some degree.

IIRC, John has done time on some set-up deal for "stalking" some woman by sending her flowers and such, then there was Mark's big car chase when the police outright falsely went after him for allegedly robbing a bank. There is a time for guys in suits and ten there is a time for a masked force. We need to keep all options open.

Guerrilla forces operating in a hostile environment must maintain anonymity in order to remain effective. 21-31 details a few methods for making sure that you can identify your own people while keeping units compartmentalized to some degree and not clearly identified by the opposition when the opposition is obviously in control of the environment. You should not even be seeking to locate and identify everyone in the patriot movement, or identify its leaders. Any single person, single database like that is simply too juicy of a target for the enemy.

This also means various methods of being anonymous at larger gatherings, but I would definitely have a problem with some guy who insists on remaining masked when we get together with say, less than a dozen people. The rationale on this is that some groups may want to keep some of their members anonymous from other groups, but if that group turns out to have been harboring a rat, then they have the opportunity and responsibility to out that rat to the rest of us, or else the entire group then gets added to the enemy lists and we will always know who at least a few of them are.

The only comprehensive lists anyone should be keeping are enemy lists.

[ 05-16-2010, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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J. Croft
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Sometimes Texas Resistance, the enemy of my enemy is a... useful ally. Russia for all their nuclear weapons is precariously perched between the US government encircling them and China hungrily eyeing Siberia to relive their 1.4 BILLION population. Lebensraum. Plus the Chinese have a long memory and remember all the times the West in general and in particular the Anglos(US and Britain) and the Russians have robbed them.

The Russian government has a serious problem with US/Britian/Israel. Only recently has Russia halted the steep population decline 70 years of communism and world war have wrought.

So its natural that the Russians look for temporary alliances with China, India, Iran, etc. Its natural that the Russians would look for inroads in the US govt/corporate controlled mainstream media. Hence Russia Today in the internet courting dissidents such as Gerald Celente and whoever wants to curse, tote a rifle and call themselves militia.

Wear a ski mask? Hell yes I'd wear one. I'd wear a hockey mask! I've gone one further: I've never, ever joined a militia group or even so much as attended a meeting. My father warned me such groups were either govt. fronts or infiltrated.

Do I know some people outside the internet?

....

....

....

No you won't get an answer out of me on that. I ain't no snitch. If God Forbid I were to be taken away all they'd know is... nothing. They'd just have to get off torturing a blank slate to death... only if they were to literally catch me asleep(possible).

Look, some attitudes are obsolete. Automatically fingering the Russians for being communist when what's supposed to be OUR government is worse than the Soviets? Come the fuck on! Automatically tar babying someone from the government/corporate created ghettos with being a street gang(about racism in a sense)and spurning them? You may NEED some connects in the inner cities someday.

Take the world as it is or you set yourself up for defeat.

All I got to fight the beast right now is my mind... and... I do what I can even when I'm banned or find out where I was is a govt. front. I do what I can even against the obtuse, ignorant know-it-alls which constitute what's laughably called the 'American People'.

--------------------
Be your own leader

freedomguide.blogspot.com
freedomguide.wordpress.com
youtube.com/user/freedomguide

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Texas Resistance
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Mr. Croft, if you wear a ski-mask you will play into their plans to make us look like terrorists and it is unfortunate you are not patriotic enough to join a militia.

Let's get back on topic now.
July 4 Patriot is still falsely charged with molesting his own daughter and needs our support.

Forwarded:
"Just wanted you to know that the preliminary hearing has been set for July 19, 2010 at 0900. Thanks again and keep us in your prayers.
Jan Dyer (J4P's mom)"

[ 05-27-2010, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Texas Resistance ]

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www.TexasMilitia.Info “Seek out and join a lawful Militia or form one in your area. If you wish to remain Free you will have to fight for it...because the traitors will give us no choice in the matter” William Cooper

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Lord Vader
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quote:
Texas Resistance
Mr. Croft, if you wear a ski-mask you will play into their plans to make us look like terrorists and it is unfortunate you are not patriotic enough to join a militia.

That is a Huge Stinking Pile of Bull Excrement.

Just because someone doesn't want to join a Militia Group DOES NOT mean in any way that he or she is not just as Patriotic as you or any other Member of this board or Member of any Militia Group.

And as to wearing a Mask Terrorists are not the only ones who wear masks. COPS WEAR MASKS every time they don't want members Citizens to know who they are. They did that in NYC a while back when they attacked some Citizens who were not doing anything wrong, just because they did not want them hanging around at a Public Park.

If we ever have an Armed Protest, and I mean a real one not the Approved one that was just recently held in Virginia on the banks of the Potomac. I mean a REAL ONE where Patriots show that they mean business by the Civil Disobedience of violating the Gun Laws. Then if we are stupid enough to NOT WEAR MASKS we will deserve what we get when our homes are attacked at 3:00 AM, or we are just rounded up at work.

Look we are supposed to be Brothers fighting for a common cause which is Freedom and we should not be posting that someone is not a real Patriot just because of a difference of opinion.

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VINCE AUT MORIRE (Conquer or Die)

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J. Croft
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I don't have any hate for Texas Resistance. I mean, he's entitled as an American to his opinion.

Now whether he's right that's another matter and it's a life or death matter. Maybe he's right...

But I'll err on the side of caution and NOT openly ID myself to the enemy, nor get caught in a federal honeytrap in cammo. That's my choice.

--------------------
Be your own leader

freedomguide.blogspot.com
freedomguide.wordpress.com
youtube.com/user/freedomguide

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Breacher
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+1 Croft. I regularly use disguises and change my appearance for certain activities but there are plenty of times when a straight up mask is the best option. To be entirely honest, I don't attend very many large public events without a discreet mask in my pocket. If something breaks out, I plan on making it difficult for anyone to pick me out of the video.

Two things you want on or very near you at any serious demonstration are a mask and either a reversible or a tossable jacket. Gloves are a good idea too. Wear a long sleeve shirt and gloves and people could barely tell your race on a lot of videos, let alone what you actually look like. I can even pass as a Black man at a distance with the right makeup.

Some people have a neutral enough appearance that they take well to disguises, others need to wear masks. Even if some of the opposition know what you look like or got pictures somewhere, there is a level of deniability when you conduct operations while wearing a mask of some sort.

[ 05-28-2010, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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Breacher
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Update, there is a court date set for July 19th, apparently a preliminary hearing where the judge will have a genuine opportunity (shall we say obligation given the nature of the whole case being a witch hunt and not the result of valid investigations) to formally order the charges dropped.

No indications from the prosecution side that will go down with them voluntarily withdrawing charges, but perhaps with a little convincing they can be led to see things the right way.

Media coverage is spotty at this point, calling the situation with the original charges "an acquittal", which means he was found not guilty by a jury.

This is not one of those "he said she said" type of situations with the grenade launcher. It was a modified airsoft unit, not the stolen government property, and Charles Dyer had been put on trial for his life and honor on a false accusation that the government carried through to the last minute.

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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Breacher
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Preliminary hearing in the morning, Monday July 19th. The session is supposedly closed to outsiders, even Dyers Mother is not going to be in the courtroom, but this is apparently the first opportunity that the court has to toss the case out.

Anybody with boots on the ground in Oklahoma in a position to report what happens in the courthouse?

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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Breacher
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Court starting this morning. Will have updates in a few hours.

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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Breacher
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Update, not sure of the status of the original charge but the government is making the following moves:

1. They have added some sort of firearms theft or receiving stolen property charge to the state charges, apparently a firearm passed from federal custody to state custody was attributed to one confiscated from his house and had a serial number removed or altered. The new charge is a state charge, not federal, as the federal case has been closed since his acquittal on the stolen grenade launcher charge.

2 No plea offer has been made by either side.

3 The state has initiated action to remove the 5 year old daughter from the custody of Dyer's girlfriend and place the child in custody of the state. Dyer's girlfriend has been living with him and after his arrest, with his parents since the beginning of this case. The government had originally duped her into giving permission to search his house when this all started, and apparently had expected her "continued cooperation". The threat being that if she were not "cooperative enough" her child would be taken away. It looks like the government (state level) is making moves to make good on its threat.

http://freejuly4patriot.chipin.com/free-july4patriot

[ 07-19-2010, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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stealth mode
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Breacher thanks for the updates!

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Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.

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Breacher
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Another update:

One set of new state level charges deals with essentially the same issues that the original federal charges did, a clear violation of the double jeopardy issue in the constitution, but prosecutors have been playing that game in other cases for a long time. They will make attempts on someone in every jurisdiction they can, and coordinate their efforts to gain a conviction.

No word on the molestation charges being dropped as a lot of us expected to happen, but few if anyone outside the local prosecutor's office is treating those charges right now as having any credibility.

--------------------
Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

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Bladerunner
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quote:
Originally posted by Texas Resistance:
July 4 Patriot is still falsely charged with molesting his own daughter and needs our support.

Doesn’t surprise me that the government would do that. Seems to be SOP now on many cases they fabricate. Had that one government employee try to say I was a pedophile publicly also. Took me posting all the paperwork to dispel that myth.

--------------------
Outlaw guns of honest civilians, violent crime rises.
Encourage guns of honest civilians, violent crime falls.
(PS: Above includes murders committed by governments.)
(PSS: Including your own.)

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Texas Resistance
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A woman in our unit who speaks with Sgt. Dyer's mother said she was told today that they are also charging him with having stolen firearms and that she thinks he will be railroaded to prison on the false charges of molesting his daughter. She tells me that Sgt. Dyer will be put in the corrupt prison that he used to work at as guard but lost his job there for blowing the whistle on the ongoing corruption. The woman in our unit said she thinks Sgt. Dyer will be falsely convicted, chained to the floor in the prison and beaten to death by the guards that he blew the whistle on.

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www.TexasMilitia.Info “Seek out and join a lawful Militia or form one in your area. If you wish to remain Free you will have to fight for it...because the traitors will give us no choice in the matter” William Cooper

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J. Croft
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Bumped and with commentary:

It's been put up or shut up time for all of us who want Freedom. BEEN.

Are we going to let another Patriot, none less than the founder of the Oath Keeper Movement get railroaded into prison?

If you're about to buy another safe queen rifle maybe you should reconsider, send that money to the official chip-in?

If you're about to get another case of ammo for your rifle, maybe you should instead send AT LEAST a few boxes worth of that cash to Sgt. Dyer's chip in?

The man stands up, risks everything to awaken Patriotic Americans serving in the Armed Forces and Police. He's going down for that stand-in large part because SUPPOSEDLY GOOD MEN AND WOMEN DO NOTHING.

What? You haven't heard about July4Patriot on Alex Jones? He's not going to talk about him, he's firmly in rat stewie's pocket. His "militia" guest is Mike Hollingsworth, the rat who set up July4Patriot to be arrested on those proven to be false charges.

It is up to YOU to do SOMETHING.

Spread the word.

Watch these... then kick some cash to this Man. He is a Man-much more so than about the rest of us.

rest here: http://freedomguide.blogspot.com/2010/08/sgt-dyer-aka-july4patriot-has-new-state.html

--------------------
Be your own leader

freedomguide.blogspot.com
freedomguide.wordpress.com
youtube.com/user/freedomguide

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Bladerunner
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Having the cash to fight makes a BIG difference. The government HATE those who can stand up to them and go tit for tat. In whatever form that happens to be.

For better or worse I know more than most.

--------------------
Outlaw guns of honest civilians, violent crime rises.
Encourage guns of honest civilians, violent crime falls.
(PS: Above includes murders committed by governments.)
(PSS: Including your own.)

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Mom4rmHell
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I contributed regularly to a MeetUp program for J4P up until it closed earlier this summer. Thanks for posting the other web address for support Breacher!

--------------------
"I tried to find a female drill instructor's hat for the mom from hell, but couldn't. Anyway, thanks. Basic was a breeze." Son's graduation, Ft. Benning, 1998.

"A good weapon is the best form of health care." T. Donnelly

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Breacher
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quote:
Originally posted by Texas Resistance:
A woman in our unit who speaks with Sgt. Dyer's mother said she was told today that they are also charging him with having stolen firearms and that she thinks he will be railroaded to prison on the false charges of molesting his daughter. She tells me that Sgt. Dyer will be put in the corrupt prison that he used to work at as guard but lost his job there for blowing the whistle on the ongoing corruption. The woman in our unit said she thinks Sgt. Dyer will be falsely convicted, chained to the floor in the prison and beaten to death by the guards that he blew the whistle on.

If this were a whistleblowing incident with retaliation, we can get verification on it and then spread word through the prison system. If anything uncouth like that happens to J4P on the inside, well, think 1972, the wave that started in Attica...

That's why it was so incredibly important to find out where he was being held, because if his just turned up messed up or dead after being locked up, we know who would be held responsible. Stuff does not happen inside those jails and prisons without the staff A: knowing about it, and B: being in on it in some way.

J4P was already minimizing the incident where he was kept in one meal a day isolation for a week or so, but in reality, that was a human rights violation, especially for a non-felon with no prior arrest record on pretrial confinement. He apparently fears the retaliation that would happen if he were to make an issue of it, my guess is they also threatened his parents.

Those things also don't happen without the direction of the prosecutors involved, and the unwritten prosecutors; the judges and their staff who are quite often the unofficial order givers in these types of situations.

If they kill or badly maim him, then it will be mandatory for someone somewhere from within the militia movement to say goodbye to their friends and family, pack up their bags of party favors and take a one way trip to Oklahoma to see that justice is done, do something that will sear the issue into the memories of as many people possible, and then meet up on the other side of the river...

[ 08-23-2010, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

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J. Croft
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July4Patriot new YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zED5PD2dfg

July4Patriot interview:

http://truthfrequencyradio.com/podcasts/truthfrequency_08_28_10_charles_dyer_128k.mp3

lo bandwidth version:
http://truthfrequencyradio.com/podcasts/truthfrequency_08_28_10_charles_dyer_32k.mp3

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Walfred
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A woman in our unit who speaks with Sgt. Dyer's mother said she was told today that they are also charging him with having stolen firearms and that she thinks he will be railroaded to prison on the false charges of molesting his daughter. She tells me that Sgt. Dyer will be put in the corrupt prison that he used to work at as guard but lost his job there for blowing the whistle on the ongoing corruption. The woman in our unit said she thinks Sgt. Dyer will be falsely convicted, chained to the floor in the prison and beaten to death by the guards that he blew the whistle on.

I hope nothing like this happens to Sgt.Dyer!...

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Sisu
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Does anyone else have an opinion on the interview? The video or anything else. I feel like a fucking coward after listening to the man state his piece.
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Breacher
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I have been exremely busy for the last month with no signs of slowing down so I don't have much time for the board, but I am catching up on the situation.

Again, I would have to re-state that anything bad happening to Dyer while in government custody will provide just cause for severe retribution against any jail or prison staff who are even remotely associated with those involved. Then we start growing the list of names well into the local court and branches of any agency involved in the case.

That said, there are going to have to be some choices made in the next few months about how to handle the situation should he be convicted. There is a strong chance that even if convicted, he would win on appeals due to government misconduct and lying witnesses. The time to go fugitive is when one knows for certain that A: they will be railroaded, and B: they will be killed or seriously harmed, by intent of the government, while in custody. Usually in some time period after a person goes on the lam, their rights to continue appeals will expire. I am not sure on the period between conviction and sentencing. Courts usually orchestrate things so you don't really know whether someone is let go or convicted until the last moment, but running away is usually a sure sign that someone expects a guilty verdict. Most outside observers will consider it a sign of outright guilt.

Then at some point, if a decision is made to put him in an underground railroad situation, someone (several someones) have to make much larger effort and financial commitments then have been made so far, and he would most likely have to agree to stay out of the country indefinitely, or until a real shooting war starts, and if a real shooting war starts, he goes to the front line.

If there is no anticipation of a shooting war within two to five years, and the government more or less guarantees his safety while in custody, then he is better of just doing his time and getting out to a level of post prison support from the prisoner release support infrastructure we are improving as we go along.

[ 09-03-2010, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

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J. Croft
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Heard the interview. Sgt. Dyer sounds fairly confident he will win but acknowledges that the FBI are monsters as well as the DA. ATF he claims are friendly enough and fair.

I will not comment on what Dyer should or ought to do save fighting this. How he chooses to do so is up to him and him alone. I also will not comment on my own opinion on what he should do save that I'd like to see more time to prepare more. And better.

If Dyer winds up in the joint it will be up to him to pioneer a prison infrastructure for Patriots. It's always a few hard men with outside support that start these things. Yes Patriots will be lumped into a gang category but that beats servicing dicks... right?

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Breacher
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Talked with one of the defense team on Saturday. The prosecutor is going for LIFE plus a few years on the gun charges. It is looking like the government wants this to be an all or nothing situation.

I have previously done legal research on some other molestation cases and first time offenders generally don't get hit that hard, and then there is the credibility factor on these divorce situations usually leading to charges being thrown out when someone fights them to the max. Even the sentences the prosecutor is asking for on the weapons charges are pretty heavy - signs of an alternate agenda which is to make an example of dyer as punishment for his political stance.

They entirely plan on locking him up forever. Dude wants to "fight" it in court, IE, plead and argue.

As for gang status to the patriot movement, it has not been happening yet, but there have been several individuals classified as "high threat individuals" meaning that they get classified as the equivalent to a one man gang, then get shunted over to higher levels of security, often maximum security (as what happened to you know who...) and then the Koernke treatment, where Mark was basically locked up one on one with psychopaths who had previously killed cellmates.

We have an existing but weak infrastructure in place in the federal system, but not so much in any of the state prisons.

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Texas Resistance
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The whole situation is outrageous. We need to help July4Patriot some how. There is no way in hell July4Patriot would have molested his own daughter. I heard his dope head ex-wife's father was a child molester. How can they bring July4Partiot to trail again on the false illegal weapon charges? The constitution prohibits anyone from being tried for the same alleged crime twice its called double jeopardy and its illegal.

Do you think it would it help if we had a large protest outside in front of the court while the trial is going on?

Fleeing out of the country is not an option for July4Patriot. His family's farm and home has been pledged on his bail bond.

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Tuscarora
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Just a heads up so most of you hear it from someone who intimately knows..

Dispite what anyone may think, it is very easy for an "accident" to happen while in custody of a prison and only a VERY limited number of staff knowing the actual truth. Even in a maximum with lots of cameras.

Secondly in my humble opinion, security staff (guards) in a prison tend to be very patriotic individuals and many are vets. Some even make the choice to work "behind the walls" instead of outside them when making the choice in their law enforcement careers between police and corrections officers. Corrections personnel are not required to enforce the law on civilians, and that's something I find attractive in my employment, given the present political climate of our nation. I'd be surprised to find a major prison that dosn't have a militia presence of some level.

Point of all this being, It would be better for him if those trying to help him were doing what they could to help him make the proper connections on the inside, instead of just looking to slaughter "anyone remotely connected". The security staff at a prison are the best opportunities for Dyer to be protected and information to be circulated. If something does happen to him, it's going to be guards who bring it to light. Not to mention they can just in gereral make his life much, much more comfortable while he goes through this.

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"The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time." -Jack London

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Tuscarora
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Just a heads up so most of you hear it from someone who intimately knows..

Dispite what anyone may think, it is very easy for an "accident" to happen while in custody of a prison and only a VERY limited number of staff knowing the actual truth. Even in a maximum with lots of cameras.

Secondly in my humble opinion, security staff (guards) in a prison tend to be very patriotic individuals and many are vets. Some even make the choice to work "behind the walls" instead of outside them when making the choice in their law enforcement careers between police and corrections officers. Corrections personnel are not required to enforce the law on civilians, and that's something I find attractive in my employment, given the present political climate of our nation. I'd be surprised to find a major prison that dosn't have a militia presence of some level.

Point of all this being, It would be better for him if those trying to help him were doing what they could to help him make the proper connections on the inside, instead of just looking to slaughter "anyone remotely connected". The security staff at a prison are the best opportunities for Dyer to be protected and information to be circulated. If something does happen to him, it's going to be guards who bring it to light. Not to mention they can just in gereral make his life much, much more comfortable while he goes through this.

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"The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time." -Jack London

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Texas Resistance
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Not just "accidents" could cause deaths at prisons. High ranking prison guards who have trained with our militia group have told us that in the event of total economic collapse, a nuclear World War III, or some other scenario where the prisons could no longer be staffed by guards that certain guards have orders to go from cell to cell and execute all the prisoners.

[ 09-06-2010, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Texas Resistance ]

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Tuscarora
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BREACHER [/QB][/QUOTE]Stuff does not happen inside those jails and prisons without the staff A: knowing about it, and B: being in on it in some way.

Those things also don't happen without the direction of the prosecutors involved, and the unwritten prosecutors; the judges and their staff who are quite often the unofficial order givers in these types of situations.

If they kill or badly maim him, then it will be mandatory for someone somewhere from within the militia movement to say goodbye to their friends and family, pack up their bags of party favors and take a one way trip to Oklahoma to see that justice is done, do something that will sear the issue into the memories of as many people possible, and then meet up on the other side of the river... [/QB][/QUOTE]


Wrong wrong wrong. If anything happens, the guards there will take care of it before anyone even takes step one for their one way trip to oklahoma.

Half the fights in a maximum security prison that invlove security staff, involves ONLY security staff. Another lil tidbit the guberment don't want you to know.

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"The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time." -Jack London

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Tuscarora
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quote:
Originally posted by Texas Resistance:
Not just "accidents" could cause deaths at prisons. High ranking prison guards who have trained with our militia group have told us that in the event of total economic collapse, a nuclear World War III, or some other scenario where the prisons could no longer be staffed by guards that certain guards have orders to go from cell to cell and execute all the prisoners.

Hmm, well I'd say thats a bunch of talk. And if it ain't, (which on some levels would surprise me, and on other levels wouldn't) then true patriots have a duty to fulfill in that situation don't they. In fact if officers at my current locale were ordered to execute anyone unlawfully, the majority of the staff would use deadly force to prevent it.

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"The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time." -Jack London

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Tuscarora
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quote:
Originally posted by Texas Resistance:
Not just "accidents" could cause deaths at prisons. High ranking prison guards who have trained with our militia group have told us that in the event of total economic collapse, a nuclear World War III, or some other scenario where the prisons could no longer be staffed by guards that certain guards have orders to go from cell to cell and execute all the prisoners.

Hmm, well I'd say thats a bunch of talk. And if it ain't, (which on some levels would surprise me, and on other levels wouldn't) then true patriots have a duty to fulfill in that situation don't they. In fact if officers at my current locale were ordered to execute anyone unlawfully, the majority of the staff would use deadly force to prevent it.

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"The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time." -Jack London

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Tuscarora
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quote:
Originally posted by Texas Resistance:
Not just "accidents" could cause deaths at prisons. High ranking prison guards who have trained with our militia group have told us that in the event of total economic collapse, a nuclear World War III, or some other scenario where the prisons could no longer be staffed by guards that certain guards have orders to go from cell to cell and execute all the prisoners.

Hmm, well I'd say thats a bunch of talk. And if it ain't, (which on some levels would surprise me, and on other levels wouldn't) then true patriots have a duty to fulfill in that situation don't they. In fact if officers at my current locale were ordered to execute anyone unlawfully, the majority of the staff would use deadly force to prevent it.

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"The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time." -Jack London

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Breacher
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I have heard the same thing, authorization mass execution is allegedly buried in the language of some of the FEMA documents. Basically prisoners classified above a certain threat level get killed off, which makes room in the higher security prisons for lower prisoners, and room at the minimum security places for lower level dissidents.

I can think that in a SHTF situation, some sort of criteria gets used on the executions, and it would have to be a very serious SHTF, as the executions were more common in hospitals than prisons during Katrina. In fact, I think in Katrina they were doing some mass early releases of lower level convicts so they could "volunteer" for cleanup work. That said, it is logical to think that the Richard Ramirez and Richard Allan Davis types would just get their execution dates moved up from "pending", to, "get it done before we have to open the doors and shut the place down". That, and a lot of prison systems are outfitted to be self sustaining, with on-site farms. I think the original FEMA plan is to have them producing food and basic goods for military bases and refugee camps since a lot of prisons already have farms and food production facilities that are supposed to have a greater production capacity than the prisons consume.

As for leaving the country not being an option, I figured he would decide to stay and "fight" (make more videos and then argue in court). Owning a farm as an inmate doing life means it gets lost anyway, but takes longer to happen. Sometimes real estate owned by an inmate can get tied up in court long enough for them to get out and reclaim it, but rarely unless relatives and or supporters on the outside get involved. Its not like a whole lot of people are volunteering to go do farm chores there either.

As for any relationships with prison staff, that is going to vary greatly, as reported by the members here who have done time. Some treatment of our people fairly recently was particularly bad and it was not coming from the inmates. I have had pretty close contact with some of the people in those situations and some of it even resulted in residual threats against one person's family by prison staff at a prison the jailed patriot never even had anything to do with.

Prison staff apparently were pretty rough on Mark Koernke more than once, same with RT for the short time he was in federal prison, and it seemed that his bad treatment had been done more because of his military service than in spite of it.

[ 09-07-2010, 04:14 AM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

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Texas Resistance
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quote:
Originally posted by Breacher:
...As for leaving the country not being an option, I figured he would decide to stay and "fight" (make more videos and then argue in court). Owning a farm as an inmate doing life means it gets lost anyway, but takes longer to happen. Sometimes real estate owned by an inmate can get tied up in court long enough for them to get out and reclaim it, but rarely unless relatives and or supporters on the outside get involved. Its not like a whole lot of people are volunteering to go do farm chores there either...

It is his parents farm and home.

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ConSigCor
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People in j4p's position should be placed in protective custody. Nor should any of their property be permitted to be stolen by organized criminal thieves.
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free radical
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IF Dyer is convicted, hopefully his friends and the local Patriots will extract much REVENGE of the crimson variety.

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J. Croft
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Anyone who openly goes to the guards for protection is typically labeled a snitch. Those in Protective Custody are typically looked down upon by GenPop... not a good start to establishing yourself.

Certainly if you're perceived as some kind of direct threat to their employer or have a swimming pool full of the government's kool-aid about us being the enemy, there's an excellent chance a Patriot's stay in Uncle Sam's concrete fuck palace will go much er-rougher than usual... which is horrific anyhow.

Now, the more established prison gangs (Aryan Brotherhood e.g.) might have personnel in positions of authority; they not only facilitate smuggling in drugs and whatnot but being able to use prison authorities well, imagine it. And the skinheads and racists do not love militia types.

Oath Keepers: that's a very big 'depends'. The OK movement can't be easily tracked beyond Stewart Rhodes organization as cops and guards are very well practiced at keeping their mouths shut and covering their asses. Maybe there are enough OK'ers at a certain institution to maybe watch over you, slip you items-can't count on it.

Your hope if you're incarcerated is to fight your case, be honorable, don't look down on people, make friends/alliances. Be of use or you will be used.

Monfrond: at times the envelope's pushed at AWRM and God knows I do it... I'll do it now, someday he will probably be looked upon as a John Brown type-ahead of the curve of the inevitable clash. Now? It's still awfully incorrect in most polite law-abiding people's company to refer to cop killers as heroes. Be advised.

I hope Dyer makes some more videos at least. Do a few more interviews. Who knows mebbe he can beat this rap. He beat his first Federal case about the 40mm-er, 37mm flare launcher... but a question; why did he accept a flare launcher with a serial number-scratched off? In his radio interview I posted before he stated it was a 40mm. Was he doing that stating it really was a grenade launcher?

Not wavering in support just need a clarification; I posted addy to the Dyer chip in I put up at my blog and someone had that very question.

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code3
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I don't know about Oklahoma but here in California many prisons have members in the militia. It depends where the prison is located,the farther north you go the more patriotic the guards get. As for going PC the inmate ( or in 4th of july patriot case "PRISONER") may not have a choice on the matter. If his initial committe members believe his presence would disrupt normal operations he will be sent to a PC yard. If he can't program there he may go to SHU. SHU's are where they keep you locked up for 23 hours a day. After guards review his file and watch his you tube videos he shouldn't have a problem with staff. His best hope is for a well informed jury.

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Lord Vader
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quote:
Originally posted by free radical:
IF Dyer is convicted, hopefully his friends and the local Patriots will extract much REVENGE of the crimson variety.

Friend you are so right, that is what should happen, but we need to be very careful, since the War has not yet officially started or been declared and killing people regardless of how much they deserve it is not only frowned upon by the Government and a very large percentage of the Population it is very, very illegal, and even suggesting it should be done is not a good idea.

We can only say what should be done as a what if scenario, like in a war game, but we must not be suggesting any one actually do it in real life. It is a very thin line we must not cross even though we walk on it at times.


In the Movie Chisum, the bad guy, L.G. Murphy played by Forest Tucker in talking about John Chisum, played by John Wayne, said of Chisum that his problem was that he respected the Law, while I Own the Law.

What does this have to do what with Dyer or anything else.

It has a lot to do with the situation concerning Dyer and other Patriots who are persecuted by the Government for their actions in defense of our Constitutional Republic.

What it means is this, when the Law is enforced and worse yet owned by the Enemies of our Republic and of Freedom itself, the Law becomes the tool of the Enemy and we the People can not use it in our fight to preserve our remaining freedoms and restore our stolen freedoms, or to defend and protect our Brother Freedom Fighters.

In this current situation, with Dyer, if there is to be true Justice, the people will need to ignore the Government's Law and take matters into their own hands, which means the Patriots who help Dyer will be considered Criminals by the Government and that is what the Main Stream News Media will report and the Sheeple will swallow it, Hook , Line and Sinker.

The actual actions that will need to be taken can not be discussed or even mentioned on this or any other Board.

All I can say is this, the Enemy should not be permitted to persecute and imprison one more Innocent Patriot and this especially includes Dyer. Dyer should be the turning point for the pro Constitution and pro Freedom movement.

Patriots need to stand together and speak with one United Voice and tell the Enemy, your persecution of Patriotic American Citizens ENDS NOW, you will no longer arrest and prosecute patriots and unjustly convict them on fabricated charges. And we will do everything and anything that we have the power and capability to do, in our fight to stop your persecution of our Brother Patriots.

This is the message that Patriot Citizens need to convey to those who are persecuting Dyer and the Administration they work for. And these Patriots must not stop with rhetoric, they must be Ready, Willing and Able to back up their words with Action, and do whatever is necessary and pray for guidance.

If there are enough Patriots who are willing to take action, the Government will think very hard before pushing the People over the edge. It is all a matter of the Number of people willing to take action and letting it be known that they are Ready, Willing and Able to do what is necessary. Then we can win without any actual violence or violating any of their Laws. We outnumber them and they know it, it is just that we the People have not figured that simple fact out yet.

Anymore then this I can not say on an Open Board, or anywhere else that is monitored and neither should anyone else.

We need to pray that Dyer can be prevented from being unjustly convicted, without the use of force, but be realistic and understand what may be necessary.

But the sad truth is that all that I have posted is just a dream and a hope for I understand the true nature of Man, and it will take a lot more then just Dyer being railroaded into prison to get the people off their fat asses and for them to take the type of action that would be necessary.

So he will be convicted and go to prison and we brave Patriots will do nothing which is what we have done in the past and will continue to do.

Maybe next year when the reality of the Tax Increases hits the people right where it hurts most, in their wallets, they will finally do the right thing, even if for the wrong reasons.

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Breacher
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I have been checking on AWRM fairly regularly, just not posting since only one of my computers has the password stored to do it.

J4P is going through a series of trial delays which are of course normal in these types of situations.

On one hand, my original advice would have been to hunker down to make the fight as costly as possible for the opposition, keeping it mostly lawful, but definitely not being afraid to escalate if the opposition decides they are going to bend the rules to win.

Now the problem is that the prosecutor has been asking for a 20 year sentence and permanent sex offender status. That is effectively a life sentence, and with the "treatments" that Dyer is likely to get in custody, what comes out of prison after that time will be a zombie in the shell of what used to be Charles Dyer.

That puts is in the dilemma of even having to pretend to accept the legitimacy of putting him on trial for a false allegation that gives credibility to a legal system that uses false accusations as a tool to break people down and open up the possibility of adverse consequences in other arenas.

So as a policy statement for the Patriot Defense Fund, we will continue to monitor the situation and condemn any uncouth action taken against Dyer and his family. We will consider any human rights violations to be violations against the sanctity not only of our country, but the legal system which is obviously being prostituted as a weapon for use by special interest political groups who continue to sink to new depths in progressing their idea of a soft gloved police state.

At this time however, I can't promise support for retaliation against jury members for a verdict one way or another. Bullies and liars attempting to use them as a tool are a different matter.

As for inmate groups and their relationships to the patriot movement, my information is mainly coming from recently released federal prisoners, and a few in the Oregon system.

Skinheads - Neutral to positive. There are several members of stormfront who cross post on several militia and patriot related forums, just not here at AWRM very much, and definitely less than asserted by some of the watchdog people.

Aryan brotherhood- They are much smaller than a lot of people realize, mainly made up of "lifers" who focus on their own internal prison politics and when they do ever manage to get out, are primarily focused on trying to make large amounts of money quickly, which usually means fairly big scale robberies, horning into the dope business somewhere, or some sort of extortion. Lower level associates are not even direct members, as the original AB are something of an elitist group. Oddly enough, one of their original members and main heros has a distinctly Jewish name (Silverstein) and is respected throughout the prison culture for a high profile killing of a guard and an inmate or two who was acting on behalf of staff to threaten other inmates. He is currently doing life in isolation at a supermax.

Militant queers - used to be somewhat neutral, but thanks to gossipboy, probably hostile.

Nazi lowriders (somewhat undercover nazis who are not skinheads), negative but acting friendly then snitching. Militia status with them varies as a lot of the bikers associate with the Nazi lowriders if they are incarcerated.

Southsider chicanos - mostly negative, but not necessarily at war. They are the largest single faction in prisons in the western US. Most of the killings among them are rivals picking each other off for status, but when they all get pissed about something, all hell breaks loose. They have gotten genocidal against the blacks a few times in recent years, coordinating mass uprisings in the prisons along with attacks on blacks out in the free world.

Northsider Chicanos - have an alliance of sorts with the skinheads over various issues, which spills over to the militia types but is not a direct alliance for obvious reasons.

Mexican mafias - extremely varied. Political side leadership has tried to instigate problems for years but lower level families engaged in the various clandestine black market trades have been diplomatic.

Jewish mafias - varied,

Russian mafias - varied, diplomatic, consider the American militia types to be small time and not worth associating with.

Muslims - generally negative but diplomatic. By no means an alliance with American militias as asserted by that retarded publicity seeker named Sebastian Junger.

Italian mafias - varied.

Biker club associated factions, generally positive due to diplomatic efforts and connections on the outside between some militia leaders and high profile motorcycle clubs.

Cuban and Puerto Rican aligned groups and crime families - very negative. Seems they have a chip on their shoulder about everyone.

Black mafias (non muslim) fairly negative if aligned with the naacp. Also dangerous because they often have undue influence with prison staff, and sympathetic individuals fairly openly working at the jails and prisons supporting their activities. Other inmates often resent the privileges obviously given to black mafia associates.

Black gangs (crips, bloods) negative to diplomatic due to their minority status in the federal prison system now that it is crowded with people who don't speak English as a first language. They will have heavy influence with prison staff in areas where they represent a large minority, majority or where the neighborhood outside the prison has a black dominant community.

[ 10-02-2010, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Breacher ]

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Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

Posts: 6705 | From: Western States | Registered: Sep 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
drjarhead
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quote:
Originally posted by Sniper_762X51:


If there are enough Patriots who are willing to take action, the Government will think very hard before pushing the People over the edge. It is all a matter of the Number of people willing to take action and letting it be known that they are Ready, Willing and Able to do what is necessary. Then we can win without any actual violence or violating any of their Laws. We outnumber them and they know it, it is just that we the People have not figured that simple fact out yet.

Anymore then this I can not say on an Open Board, or anywhere else that is monitored and neither should anyone else.

We need to pray that Dyer can be prevented from being unjustly convicted, without the use of force, but be realistic and understand what may be necessary.

But the sad truth is that all that I have posted is just a dream and a hope for I understand the true nature of Man, and it will take a lot more then just Dyer being railroaded into prison to get the people off their fat asses and for them to take the type of action that would be necessary.

So he will be convicted and go to prison and we brave Patriots will do nothing which is what we have done in the past and will continue to do.

Maybe next year when the reality of the Tax Increases hits the people right where it hurts most, in their wallets, they will finally do the right thing, even if for the wrong reasons.

Rather vague and ambivolent statements.

We can
We can't
We should
We shouldn't
We won't
We will but for the wrong reasons

We can't talk about it but without some communication between individuals nothing will ever happen which is exactly what you say will occur because we can't talk about it.

I understand the legalities of all this but complying with this is defeat just as sure as if we were all herded into cattle cars or gunned down in the street.


Not trying to take exception with you. It is a bitter pill to swallow...

...and J4P deserves better than that.

I guess most all of us do.

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The War for America
Fight Everywhere
III


Posts: 1248 | From: WI Northwoods | Registered: Oct 2008  | Report this post to a Moderator
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